(July 7, 2015 at 3:59 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:(July 7, 2015 at 12:29 pm)Drich Wrote: What makes you think we had free will in the Garden?
So all those Christians who say the reason god allows suffering and sin is so we can have free will, they're all wrong, right? Let them define freewill since they're the ones who use it as an answer, or try to anyway.
Atheist don't have to make lists of Bible contradictions. All we have to do is listen to a bunch of Christians explaining the Bible.
So you believe in 'free will' because others do, even when the bible says our will is not our own? That we are slaves to sin.. Why? Is everything you believe based on popular thought? Do you not independently verify anything? If enough people were fanatical about the earth being flat, would you believe it? Would you ever believe it was ok to kill a baby if you simply reidentified it with a latin word instead of an English one?
Again look it up the concept of free will. If you do you will see it is a greek philosophy concept and not a biblical one (meaning 2000 year old concept rather than a 5 to 7thousand year old concept.) Not to mention No where in the bible is free will ever mentioned.
At best well meaning people take this greek philosophy and mislabel aspects of the bible and call it 'free will'. For instance the singular choice Adam and Eve had in the garden.
Is having only the one choice (eat the forbidden fruit or not) follow any definition of 'free will?' Giving a person only one choice is pushing them down a predestined path. That is the oppsite of free will. again if you look at the definition of free will having only one choice does not follow our understanding of the word.
To have free will means to make choices outside of any predestined path. and only being given one choice means in the garden they did not have free will.
Adam and Eve simply had been given the freedom to make a single choice. This same choice is given to each of us on an indivisual bases to make. That one choice is to follow God or not. One free choice is not free will. slaves were often given many choices to make on their own, but it does not make their will their own either. Here we only have one.
So now you might ask why do bad thing happen in this life? For the same reason the doctrine of 'free will' states without the 'free will'. Because Adam eve and their offspring were all cast outside the garden where they were made to live a 'fallen' life, away from God's direct grace and His protection, because of their sin. Sin has consenquences, and being separated from God because of sin, means being separated from His glory and all He offers.