Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven?

[tonechaser77]

[Crossless2.0]

What fun!  The OP poses a question that one might think could be answered clearly and unequivocally based on Yahweh's "inspired" Word, and what do we get?  A Catholic linking to an article that says that, yes, we will have free will in Heaven (but choose not to rebel) and a Protestant who says that, no, we do not have free will in Heaven or on Earth.

Who knew that childish fantasies could be so hard to understand?

There is no need to pay much attention to Protestantism. It's just another heresy.

Oh, no fear, Randy.  I don't take Protestants any more seriously than I do Catholics.

[Metis]

What fun!  The OP poses a question that one might think could be answered clearly and unequivocally based on Yahweh's "inspired" Word, and what do we get?  A Catholic linking to an article that says that, yes, we will have free will in Heaven (but choose not to rebel) and a Protestant who says that, no, we do not have free will in Heaven or on Earth.

Who knew that childish fantasies could be so hard to understand?

There is no need to pay much attention to Protestantism. It's just another heresy.

[Rhondazvous]

And wet too? Pobre cito.

Didn't you say somewhere you have a wife? And Stim thins having a woman will answer his problems. Somebody ought to tell him the truth.

Yeah I have a wife She says to me, "Do they think you're a real person on that forum?" I say, "Yeah, I think so!"

She is absolutely wonderful and my flannelings would be missing their insides without her.

If you weren't a real person, I might think I was talking to god and then the men in the long white coats would come and put me away somewhere.

That is great to have someone who's on your side like that. You must be doing something right.

[robvalue]

Thank you I am a very lucky guy.

By real person she means a proper member of society rather than a funny little creature scurrying around with no idea what he's doing Jury is still out on that one.

[Rhondazvous]

What makes you think we had free will in the Garden?

So all those Christians who say the reason god allows suffering and sin is so we can have free will, they're all wrong, right? Let them define freewill since they're the ones who use it as an answer, or try to anyway.

Atheist don't have to make lists of Bible contradictions. All we have to do is listen to a bunch of Christians explaining the Bible.

[Drich]

What makes you think we had free will in the Garden?

So all those Christians who say the reason god allows suffering and sin is so we can have free will, they're all wrong, right? Let them define freewill since they're the ones who use it as an answer, or try to anyway.

Atheist don't have to make lists of Bible contradictions.  All we have to do is listen to a bunch of Christians explaining the Bible.

So you believe in 'free will' because others do, even when the bible says our will is not our own? That we are slaves to sin.. Why? Is everything you believe based on popular thought? Do you not independently verify anything? If enough people were fanatical about the earth being flat, would you believe it? Would you ever believe it was ok to kill a baby if you simply reidentified it with a latin word instead of an English one?

Again look it up the concept of free will. If you do you will see it is a greek philosophy concept and not a biblical one (meaning 2000 year old concept rather than a 5 to 7thousand year old concept.) Not to mention No where in the bible is free will ever mentioned.

At best well meaning people take this greek philosophy and mislabel aspects of the bible and call it 'free will'. For instance the singular choice Adam and Eve had in the garden.

Is having only the one choice (eat the forbidden fruit or not) follow any definition of 'free will?' Giving a person only one choice is pushing them down a predestined path. That is the oppsite of free will. again if you look at the definition of free will having only one choice does not follow our understanding of the word.

To have free will means to make choices outside of any predestined path. and only being given one choice means in the garden they did not have free will.
Adam and Eve simply had been given the freedom to make a single choice. This same choice is given to each of us on an indivisual bases to make. That one choice is to follow God or not. One free choice is not free will. slaves were often given many choices to make on their own, but it does not make their will their own either. Here we only have one.

So now you might ask why do bad thing happen in this life? For the same reason the doctrine of 'free will' states without the 'free will'. Because Adam eve and their offspring were all cast outside the garden where they were made to live a 'fallen' life, away from God's direct grace and His protection, because of their sin. Sin has consenquences, and being separated from God because of sin, means being separated from His glory and all He offers.

[tonechaser77]

So all those Christians who say the reason god allows suffering and sin is so we can have free will, they're all wrong, right? Let them define freewill since they're the ones who use it as an answer, or try to anyway.

Atheist don't have to make lists of Bible contradictions.  All we have to do is listen to a bunch of Christians explaining the Bible.

So you believe in 'free will' because others do, even when the bible says our will is not our own? That we are slaves to sin.. Why? Is everything you believe based on popular thought? Do you not independently verify anything? If enough people were fanatical about the earth being flat, would you believe it? Would you ever believe it was ok to kill a baby if you simply reidentified it with a latin word instead of an English one?

Again look it up the concept of free will. If you do you will see it is a greek philosophy concept and not a biblical one (meaning 2000 year old concept rather than a 5 to 7thousand year old concept.) Not to mention No where in the bible is free will ever mentioned.

At best well meaning people take this greek philosophy and mislabel aspects of the bible and call it 'free will'. For instance the singular choice Adam and Eve had in the garden.

Is having only the one choice (eat the forbidden fruit or not) follow any definition of 'free will?' Giving a person only one choice is pushing them down a predestined path. That is the oppsite of free will. again if you look at the definition of free will having only one choice does not follow our understanding of the word.

To have free will means to make choices outside of any predestined path. and only being given one choice means in the garden they did not have free will.
Adam and Eve simply had been given the freedom to make a single choice. This same choice is given to each of us on an indivisual bases to make. That one choice is to follow God or not. One free choice is not free will. slaves were often given many choices to make on their own, but it does not make their will their own either. Here we only have one.

So now you might ask why do bad thing happen in this life? For the same reason the doctrine of 'free will' states without the 'free will'. Because Adam eve and their offspring were all cast outside the garden where they were made to live a 'fallen' life, away from God's direct grace and His protection, because of their sin. Sin has consenquences, and being separated from God because of sin, means being separated from His glory and all He offers.

Before there was anything called philosophy, religious accounts of man's fate explored the degree of human freedom permitted by superhuman gods. Creation myths often end in adventures of the first humans clearly making choices and being held responsible. But a strong fatalism is present in those tales that foretell the future, based on the idea that the gods have foreknowledge of future events. The myth-makers rarely challenge the implausible view that the gods' foreknowledge is compatible with human freedom. This was an early form of the idea that causal determinism and logical necessity are compatible with free will. 

Sure greek philosophers may have actually teased out the concepts but those concepts were in place well before. The bible and other holy books don't have to actually mention the words free will. 

To have free will means to make choices outside of any predestined path.

 

I don't agree with free will. If we have anything, I think it is illusory at best. It sounds like you may come to the same conclusions but just under a different context.

[Rhondazvous]

So you believe in 'free will' because others do, even when the bible says our will is not our own? That we are slaves to sin.. Why? Is everything you believe based on popular thought? Do you not independently verify anything? If enough people were fanatical about the earth being flat, would you believe it? Would you ever believe it was ok to kill a baby if you simply reidentified it with a latin word instead of an English one?

...I was going to reply, but you're so wrong it's not even worth it.

[Rhondazvous]

Dritch is in the unenviable position of understanding that freewill cannot exist in the presence of an all-knowing, omnipotent god, but having to believe that humans are responsible for their sin and deserve to go to hell for it.

No human brain can house such contradictory beliefs without going batty.

History has shown us that we do have limited freewill. Our actions are based on emotions, not logic. We have drives and urges and the limitations of our physical bodies. Still, we aren't all instinct. There is a part of us that can stand back and decide whether to follow our drives and urges. Once we learn that we can do this, our actions will be based more and logic and we will have more freewill than those who just do what comes naturally. This is easier said than done, but, to varying degrees, we do have some control and are not slaves to anything we don't wish to be.