(October 10, 2010 at 7:52 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: Ah, having recently ditched my Christian faith, I didn't know any of that, so thank you! Christians also say that there is no Biblical claim that archeology has proven false-I know this is bullshit, but, again, I'm new to countering Christian arguments-so please do give me some examples.
No problem and hope it didn't come across that I was laughing at you. I was laughing at what you heard that you needed an answer to.
To give you an idea of what I find so funny, here's the TF, from Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, Chapter 18. Bold emphasis mine.
Quote:Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
So the bullet points concerning Christian theology we get in a short paragraph are:
1. Jesus was divine ("if it be lawful to call him a man")
2. Jesus performed miracles.
3. Jesus had a successful ministry that spread like wildfire among Jews and Gentiles.
4. Jesus was the Messiah (Christ)
5. Jesus was crucified by Pilate
6. Jesus was resurrected on the third day
7. Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy
8. Jesus' ministry has spread like wildfire since.
All of these are the salient points of Christian theology, with the possible exception of the virgin birth. The rapid fire presentation of this checklist is such that would do any auctioneer proud. The "ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him" is truly over the top and the stuff of Christian propaganda. For this paragraph to have been truly written by Josephus only makes sense if he were a closet Christian the whole time. Rather dim of him to have come prancing out of the closet in a book written for Roman nobility, wouldn't you say?
What did Josephus really write? Earlier copies of this book are mysteriously "lost to us". The earliest copy we have comes from Bishop Eseubius, who proudly presented the paragraph as evidence for Jesus. Surprisingly, no Christian apologist prior to the 3rd century Bishop made any mention of it. This would seem strange since it answers every apologist's prayers.
The apologist has neither earlier manuscripts of the TF nor any Christians prior to Eseubeus referencing it. But apologetics is a shameless profession and the lack of any evidence hasn't stopped them from insisting that the TF is "partially authentic". They strip away the more glaring Christian terms like "he was the Christ" and rewrite it to be something more Jewish sounding and proceed to proclaim that this is what he "probably wrote". No evidence is ever presented for this assertion and, since tampering by Christian scribes is admitted to, the burden of proof is on them.
"When one lie is detected, a thousand are suspected." -Thomas Paine.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist