(May 16, 2009 at 12:09 am)athoughtfulman Wrote: After spending 18 years in a conservative baptist church, I am perhaps better informed then you are when it comes to mainstream Christianity.
Perhaps is a big loophole conveniently. Don't talk such bollocks thoughtful. So you were a Christian at birth were you?! What utter nonsense - you know very well your experience counts for nothing. I state your understanding is naive and reason that. Do me the justice of responding in like.
Quote:Now, regardless of what you believe Frodo, this is what almost all evangelical, conservative Christians believe. I'll say it again just in case you missed it.
Nice impression of a sanctimonious little shit there. That's what I believe. Don't sermonize me.
Quote:Frodo, if you don't believe in Jesus or believe that he existed and died and rose, you are not a christian. At the very least you are not righteous, since the bible you 100% believe in, says that righteousness only comes through faith in Jesus. How can you have faith in someone if you don't believe in them?
'Believe' being the operative word here, as we have no proof. Strange how that fits with the signature of God isn't it?!
I have faith that Jesus died & rose & that righteousness only comes through faith in him. How does that fit with your fukkin unique interpretation?
(May 16, 2009 at 12:09 am)athoughtfulman Wrote:(May 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Like I said, because your description doesn't apply to all Christians, then it's false.
My description applies to all who believe in the above.
Whoops! Back to the drawing board it is for you then!
(May 16, 2009 at 12:09 am)athoughtfulman Wrote:(May 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:thoughtful Wrote:However, since the penalty for sin is death, Jesus had to defeat death, by dying and then rising. If he did not rise, then sin still exists, and we are left with nothing more than a nice philosophy, much less than the esteemed religion "Christianity".
No. That's OT in the first place, which makes it correct for Islam and Judaism. It's also true for most religions.
See the New Testament verses above. The doctrine of sin is throughout the bible, in both the NT and the OT. To ignore it is to ignore a very large part of the book you 100% believe in.
Jesus doing anything doesn't prevent Judaism or Islam from being 'esteemed religion' rather than 'nice philosophy' as you put it.
(May 16, 2009 at 12:09 am)athoughtfulman Wrote:(May 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Well that would mean that Judaism isn't a religion, so your conclusion is incorrect. We're in faith territory here. The empirical realm doesn't apply.
See the verses above. Jesus had to die.
And I have faith that he did.
(May 16, 2009 at 12:09 am)athoughtfulman Wrote:(May 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: It isn't
If it isn't, then Jesus did actually die and rise, unless you somehow think the NT is based on metaphor. And if metaphor, why is your interpretation the correct one?
It isn't inconsistent
(May 16, 2009 at 12:09 am)athoughtfulman Wrote:(May 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The assumptions aren't contradictions. The 6000 year old claim is spurious to say the least.
You missed what I said. The assumptions aren't damaging to it's integrity, they are simply very large claims. So if it were shown in any way to be false, then it would be heavily damaged and discredited. Forget the 6000 year old claim - you know what I mean.
So it isn't provably inconsistent. Your point is hypothetical.
