(April 3, 2012 at 1:09 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:(April 2, 2012 at 5:57 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: As opposed to asserting that morality is just a set of arbitrary conventions for behavior by an imaginary god that always seems to want whatever the believer wants? Asserting that morality is a function of how we treat our fellow sentient beings, as determined by our innate sense of empathy, fair play and the social contract is superior.Appealing to empathy, fair play and social contract is still not inherently superior to nihilism. In both systems values are derived from utility.
Couldn't help but notice how you glossed over my criticism of a faith based system of morality and how it boils down to little more than "my imaginary friend tells me what's right which coincidentally is always whatever I want."
Moving past that, you'll note how I discussed "innate sense". We are social animals that depend on one another for survival. The ability to form laws is an evolutionary strength as is developing a reputation for integrity that others may be comfortable in dealing with you. You are free to believe that God gave us this conscience if you wish but doing so does nothing to validate your position. Either way, we still have that aforementioned innate sense and so we don't need religion.
One of the things that makes secular values superior is we eliminate the clutter and can zero in on the heart of the matter. Morality is a function of how we treat our fellow sentients. It is where our actions impact the wellbeing of our fellow sentient beings that questions of morality apply.
Religion, by contrast, obsesses over distractions like blasphemy, idolatry and apostasy. Read the Bible or Koran cover-to-cover and you'll find most references to what they call "evil" are to victimless activities like the three I just mentioned. If you don't have the time, peruse the 10 Commandments listed in Exodus 20. A few deal with real moral issues, like the prohibitions against murder, theft and adultery, but most are about being an obedient believer. By nature, religion will be more concerned with its own interests rather than real moral issues.
In sum, religion has a conflict of interest. Secular values don't. Ergo, we win.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist