(September 12, 2014 at 1:28 am)sswhateverlove Wrote:(September 12, 2014 at 12:53 am)whateverist Wrote: Why do you approach this in such an authoritarian manner? Why begin by deciding what the experts think? Couldn't we just discuss the way things stand directly without the expert middlemen? It makes you come off as putting on airs in ways you probably do not intend.
I find the choice of 'nothing' or 'no nothing' to be as unhelpful as that between 'natural' and 'supernatural'. Both nothing and supernatural are categories devoid of certain members. What good does it do to start that way?
Intuitively, I assume that before any event you can name there would've been the necessary prior conditions. If you believe in God then you think that catalyst was already there. I don't assume the local big bang is and will be the only one. With most models of multi-verses there is no predicted effects which we should be able to test from within the local big bang. That doesn't mean the big bang is unique. It just means we're in no position to know in either event. Where knowledge isn't possible, I prefer to admit I just don't know.
Again, I am not claiming belief in God.
No, and I'm not assuming that you do. I'm just addressing one of the two competing theories you mentioned which you seemed say both imply a nothing-beginning. I don't think the existence of an eternal god is consistent with a true nothing any more than I think a big bang is consistent with a true nothing.
(September 12, 2014 at 1:28 am)sswhateverlove Wrote: With regard to my referring to scientific experts, I do so because they are assumed to be the people who are "in the know" about things that related to our understanding about the nature of reality, consciousness, existence. My subjective opinion means nothing to anyone but me.
From my point of view, whether what you have to say reflects what you think is expert-approved or merely what you have reason to believe is all the same. Unless you can weigh what the 'experts' think directly, what you think they think has no more value than just your "subjective opinion". You cannot remove yourself from the debate .. but carry on!
(September 12, 2014 at 1:28 am)sswhateverlove Wrote: Personally I think the multiverse theory is fascinating, as is the holographic universe theory. I wouldn't say I "believe in them" per se, but they're interesting to think about and discuss. I'm very skeptical, but I rule out no possibilities unless I feel like I have good reason to.I like that about you. I'd just encourage you to place more value in your own lowly opinion. [Hint: It isn't avoidable.]