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How do theists justify the translations of the scriptures?
#15
RE: How do theists justify the translations of the scriptures?
(September 5, 2019 at 3:58 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(September 5, 2019 at 2:31 pm)Drich Wrote: actually:
The New Testament has been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work of literature, with over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts catalogued, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 manuscripts in various other ancient languages including Syriac, Slavic, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian.

It's a little more complete than your dismissal would have us believe.

Not to mention the OT roll in all of this. in that there are hundreds of copies of the OT that date back upto 500 years beore Christ that have all been well documented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript

Bottom line is no matter how you slice it there is more written of the bible and more verified hand written copies than any other text

I'm not arguing the number of manuscripts, just pointing that you were wrong earlier when you said there are 25 000 handwritten copies dating from the first century - that's simply incorrect.  The manuscripts from the first 400 years of Christianity are the only ones of any real historical value (for reasons which should be obvious), there are only about 100 of those, and only one of them is complete.

But the '25 000' figure is essentially meaningless.  The number of copies of any text tells us only the importance people placed on it.  It doesn't tell us anything about the truth or falsity of what is in the text.  If there were only one copy of Newton's Principia, it would still be true.  If there were 100 million copies of Pinkwater's The Snarkout Boys And The Avocado Of Death, it would still be fiction.

This isn't to say that the NT is untrue (there are other reasons to suppose that), just that the number of manuscripts isn't a basis on which to conclude...well...anything.

Boru

never said there where 25,000 copies from the first century. I said this message has been preserved for over two thousand years. out of that preservation during that time period we have over 25,000 hand written copies of text that all tell the same message.

take a look at the following works and what we have available for them in copies/handwritten documents, are they meaningless as well? if you take your same standard and apply it to the history of first century era texts then you would also have to discard the whole of the follow list. which happen to be the top 5 most regarded works aside from the bible to come from that era. Now also note what people way way smarter than you has declared all of these documents historic and factual/IE: vetted world history. but also note some of the oldest manuscripts are 1000+ years after the fact.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. either we go by the standard that allows a work of herodias with 8 total surviving manuscripts which where written 1300 years after the events they cover, and apply it to a bible who's work is but only 1 or 2 generations away from said events with 25,000 copies, or you throw out everything. Because again like it or not, nothing in the world of manuscripts of this time period even comes close to what is written about the bible.
(1) The Gallic Wars By Julius Caesar

  1.  Author: Caesar.

  2. Date written: 100-44 B.C.

  3.  Earliest manuscript copies: 900 A.D.

  4. Elapsed time between written copies and the original: 1000 years.

  5.  Surviving manuscript evidence: 10 manuscripts.
(2) The Histories of Herodotus

  1.  Author: Herodotus.

  2. Date written: 480-425 B.C.

  3.  Earliest manuscript copies: 900 A.D.

  4.  Elapsed time between written copies and the original: 1,350 years.

  5.  Surviving manuscript evidence: 8 manuscripts.
(3) Annals by Roman historian and senator Tacitus

  1.  Author: Tacitus.

  2. Date written: 100 A.D.

  3.  Earliest manuscript copies: 1100 A.D.

  4.  Elapsed time between written copies and the original: 1000 years.

  5.  Surviving manuscript evidence: 20 manuscripts.
(4) Pliny Secundus’ Natural history

  1.  Author: Pliny the Elder.

  2. Date written: 61-113 A.D.

  3.  Earliest manuscript copies: 850 A.D.

  4.  Elapsed time between written copies and the original: 750 years.

  5.  Surviving manuscript evidence: 7 manuscripts.
(5) Homer’s Iliad


  1.  Author: Homer.

  2. Date written: 800 B.C.

  3.  Earliest manuscript copies: 400 B.C.

  4.  Elapsed time between written copies and the original: 400 years.

  5.  Surviving manuscript evidence: 643 manuscripts.

The New Testament

Authors: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Jude, Paul.
Date written: 50-96 A.D.
Earliest manuscript copies: 114 A.D (fragments), 200 A.D (books), 250 A.D (majority of N.T.) 325 A.D (complete N.T.)
Elapsed time between written copies and the original: + 50 years, 100 years, 150 years, 225 years.
Surviving manuscript evidence: 5366 manuscripts.

oldschoolcontemporary.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/the-new-testament-versus-shakespeare/

(September 6, 2019 at 5:59 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
Quote:Generally speaking, Christians look up several translation when they want to get the overall meaning of a verse, and lookup the original languages using lexicons and other sources when they want the specific meaning of a word.

Generally speaking, Christians do nothing of the kind.

Boru

Hilarious

what do you think is happening when we go to the greek texts?

Oh, that's right you guys call that verbal gymnastics.. See what happens when you close your mind just to dismiss something like a word study? you under estimate the work and ability of your opponent and over estimate your own position.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: How do theists justify the translations of the scriptures? - by Drich - September 6, 2019 at 11:04 am

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