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For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus
(March 30, 2013 at 2:07 am)Minimalist Wrote: The longest intact early xtian writings we have are Justin Martyr's Apologies. He wrote one to Emperor Antoninus Pius c 160 AD. In it, he has never heard of any "paul" or any 'matthew', mark, luke, or john. But he had heard of Marcion. And from what scholars have been able to piece together of Marcion's canon it included a watered-down version of "luke" ( or perhaps it was the original and which was later "watered-up" by xtian forgers?). It also included a handful of epistles which were attributed to some guy named paul and which were most likely written or at least edited by Marcion.

I've invented a conspiracy theory about why Justin Martyr never mentioned Paul. Big Grin

Marcion lived (c.85 – c.160) and he was still busy with his school of theology after he'd been excommunicated.

Quote:In 144, Marcion became one of the first declared heresiarchs for his deviations from the orthodox viewpoints of the apostolic church. The suppression of the Marcionist form of Christianity, if it can be called "a form of Christianity," is thus viewed[9] as a catalyst for the development of the New Testament canon, the establishment of a centralised church law, and the structuring of the Church.

The church that Marcion founded had expanded throughout the known world within his lifetime, and was a rival to the orthodox Christian church. Its adherents were strong enough in their convictions that the Marcionite church retained its expansive power for more than a century. It survived Christian controversy, and imperial disapproval, for several centuries more.[10]

Marcion was promoting Paul as being the only apostle who knew what Jesus had taught. Letters which scholars consider to be 'authentic Paul' could well be 'authentic Marcion' because he forged them - First Thessalonians (ca. 51 AD), Philippians (ca. 52-54 AD), Philemon (ca. 52-54 AD), First Corinthians (ca. 53-54 AD), Galatians (ca. 55 AD), Second Corinthians (ca. 55-56 AD), Romans (ca. 55-58 AD) These undisputed epistles aren't all that undisputed.

Quote:See also Radical Criticism, which maintains that the external evidence for attributing any of the letters to Paul is so weak, that it should be considered that all the letters appearing in the Marcion canon were written in Paul's name by members of the Marcionite Church and were afterwards edited and adopted by the Catholic Church.
3: The Roman faction decided to keep the forged Paul letters and rewrite them Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225 AD) seems to have been involved in this.

Quote:In his work against Marcion, which he calls his third composition on the Marcionite heresy, he gives its date as the fifteenth year of the reign of Severus (Adv. Marcionem, i.1, 15)—which would be approximately the year 208.

Book Five of Tertullian's work refers to all the letters in the 'authentic Paul' list and says how Marcion had pruned and mutilated them. This kind of report would be essential for a faction which was rewriting the letters and adding extra bits to them so they're 'authodox Paul'.

Justin's First Apology refers to Marcion. The estimated date of writing is 155-157.

Quote:And there is Marcion, a man of Pontus, who is even at this day alive, and teaching his disciples to believe in some other god greater than the Creator. And he, by the aid of the devils, has caused many of every nation to speak blasphemies, and to deny that God is the maker of this universe, and to assert that some other being, greater than He, has done greater works.

Now to something very odd about Justin's writings when he never mentioned Paul. Sources - Letters

Quote:Reflecting his opposition to Marcion, Justin's attitude toward the Pauline epistles generally corresponds to that of the later Church. In Justin's works, distinct references are found to Romans, 1 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, and 2 Thessalonians, and possible ones to Philippians, Titus, and 1 Timothy. It seems likely that he also knew Hebrews and 1 John.

I then went to jesusneverexisted.com and discovered that doing a browser search for Justin turned up an interesting bit of information tucked away at the side.

Quote:"It was unfortunate that Marcion had made himself the champion of Paul. Paul's letters composed more than half of his new Scripture.

This is the explanation of the curious reticence about Paul that characterizes Justin in the two works of his that have come down to us: the Apology and the Dialogue. He uses Paul freely in them, it is true, but never once mentions his name."

– Edgar J. Goodspeed, An Introduction to the New Testament, 1937, xxi.

A mystery indeed. There were all kinds of texts around in those days and people sometimes borrowed or paraphrased bits and pieces in other texts. What if Marcion's forged letters didn't include the content that Justin quoted and this was added later by Tertullian's faction who were rewriting the letters for their own purposes? It would be a great idea if they could promote the idea that Paul said these things first.

Justin's own work was concerned with Prophetic Exegesis and the Memoirs Of The Apostles.

Quote:Justin may have preferred the designation "memoirs of the apostles" as a contrast to the "gospel" of his contemporary Marcion to emphasize the connections between the historical testimony of the gospels and the Old Testament prophecies which Marcion rejected.[30]

Justin was only interested in writing about Old Testament prophecies and how he thought they'd been fulfilled in the "memoirs of the apostles" who were Jesus's disciples. No reason at all to mention Paul because he wasn't one of Jesus's disciples so maybe that was exactly what Justin intended.

Justin was regarded as a great guy by a lot of the Church Fathers.

Quote:The earliest mention of Justin is found in the Oratio ad Graecos by Tatian, who calls him "the most admirable Justin," quotes a saying of his, and says that the Cynic Crescens laid snares for him. Irenaeus[17] speaks of his martyrdom and of Tatian as his disciple. Irenaeus quotes Justin twice,[18] and shows his influence in other places. Tertullian, in his Adversus Valentinianos, calls Justin a philosopher and martyr, and the earliest antagonist of heretics. Hippolytus and Methodius of Olympus also mention or quote him. Eusebius of Caesarea deals with him at some length,[19] and names the following works:

The First Apology addressed to Antoninus Pius, his sons, and the Roman Senate;[20], a Second Apology addressed to the Roman Senate; the Discourse to the Greeks, a discussion with Greek philosophers on the character of their gods; an Hortatory Address to the Greeks; a treatise On the Sovereignty of God, in which he makes use of pagan authorities as well as Christian; a work entitled The Psalmist; a treatise in scholastic form On the Soul; and the Dialogue with Trypho.

Eusebius (AD 263 – 339) implies that other works were in circulation; from St Irenaeus (2nd century – c. 202 CE) he knows of the apology "Against Marcion," and from Justin's "Apology"[21] of a "Refutation of all Heresies ".[22] Epiphanius[23] and St Jerome[24] mention Justin.

From Early Christian Writings introduction to Justin Martyr's Works.

Quote:Justin's first work seems to have been his treatise Against all Heresies [now lost]

Irenaeus tells us that Justin Martyr wrote a work against Marcion, which is now lost. Some authentic materials are preserved in the fragments of Justin quoted by other writers, although some of these fragments may be suspect.

The 'orthodox church' tended to cherish books against heresies but Justin, although he was praised by all, wrote two anti-heresy books which mysteriously disappeared. Eusebius has heard of one from Justin's First Apology.

Quote:But I have a treatise against all the heresies that have existed already composed, which, if you wish to read it, I will give you.

Eusebius doesn't include the treatise against all the heresies in his list of Justin's works either because he'd only heard about it from Irenaeus who died not long before Tertullian published his own five books against Marcion, written in 207 or 208.

I wonder what Justin said in his texts against heresies. Could he have complained about Paul being promoted as more important than Jesus's disciples? If so, it's possible that his texts were whisked away when Tertullian's faction decided to promote their own version of Paul as being super-apostle
Badger Badger Badger Badger Where are the snake and mushroom smilies?
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RE: For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus - by Confused Ape - March 30, 2013 at 5:42 am

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