Are you for or against the separation of church and state?

[Godscreated]

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You say you do not want God to save you and the rest of those who aren't saved probably feel the same. So why should He force you to live in eternity with Him if that's not your desire or anyone else for that matter. You said He should save those who do not desire it, so why did you change your mind.

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Here's the problem I think most of us have with it.

If it was just a matter of getting sweet heavenly rewards for getting on the Yahweh bandwagon, if it was nothing but a positive incentive, who would care? I don't want those rewards, they do not appeal to me in the slightest. So, when I die, I just want to die. If you leave me to do that, then that's okay.

God's universe, He created it, God's rules, God is King whether you like it or not, your choice within His plan. Simple really.

The problem is that God sees fit to punish us for not jumping on the bandwagon. It is not enough for him to just let us non-believers experience oblivion. Salvation is not a positive incentive, because what are we being saved from? An eternity of pain and misery in hell.

If believing in God was all this was about he might just let you drift off into oblivion, but there's much more. God created you for worship in a relationship with Him, a relationship of love. I'm not even going to get into worship in this thread, leave it to another. Here's the problem that apparently you've missed, sin, there is a payment to be made for sin, just as there's a payment involved for breaking man's law. The punishment fits the crime with God even though you do not think so. Without forgiveness of one's sin the sin is everlasting, the reason it's everlasting, because it is against the everlasting God, so everlasting punishment is required from the just God. Let me say something here, I do not intend it to be offensive, but I'm glad it's an everlasting punishment. If it were not then how could I trust God to give me an everlasting life of peace, justice works equally in both directions with God. So I hope you can understand you're not being saved from everlasting punishment, you're being saved from sin, you're guiltiness against the perfect ever loving God of salvation. The punishment is for sin not forgiven, the requirement is accepting Christ being sacrificed for man's sin, sacrificed not to God but for man.

I recognize no authority which considers this acceptable, because no crime, no collection of crimes, no lifetime aggregation of crimes, deserves eternal punishment, and it's worse still when you consider that the almighty and omnipotent God does not define sin as things which are negative or detrimental or harmful or dangerous. Some sins have these qualities, but a lot don't, and God doesn't care either way.

There is no one not even God who says you have to recognize His authority, this however does not change in the least the authority He has over everyone. I've explained above that crime is eternal when committed against the eternal God, there's no way out of it, it is that way period. All sin is detrimental and harmful, in one way or the other. God doesn't care, really, He gave His Son to die for our sins, the Creator part of the Godhead sacrificed Himself for His corrupted creation and we were the ones who corrupted His creation and continue to this very day.

God doesn't care about the murder victim, he cares about being the victim himself, because he presumes to think that any crime committed is a crime against himself. That's insane and stupid. If someone shoots me, or my kid, I couldn't give a fuck less what God thinks about it (especially when he is directly responsible for it happening).

God is not responsible for sin, we are. Yes God does care about the victim, the family and friends of the victim. His caring goes beyond our understanding and this is where faith plays a big role in how we relate to God.
You sound like those who would take away our guns, blame the gun not the criminal, the criminal has the power over the gun not the other way around. Besides you can not know how many times God has keep you and your family from harm and despair, none of us can.

If I'm wrong about everything and end up in hell, I'm okay with that. I live my life for myself, my loved ones, my friends, and for whatever I can contribute to humanity as a whole. I would not live my life for a being as monstrous and hateful as your god, and if he sends me to hell, he still can't rob me of the satisfaction that I have lived a happy, fulfilling life as an independent person, and I can take solace in the fact that the company will be much more interesting.

There will be no company in hell, none that you will see or have a conversation with, actually no interaction whatsoever. You will hear their suffering and they yours, that's about as close as you will ever come to anyone.
I want to share something here, it took me a long time to realize that putting God before everything else was truly the way to live. When one puts God first in their life one finds how much more important others are, and unlike you putting yourself first (look above at what you wrote). Your family should come second, then others in some order of importance, then yourself last, this is where one can experience the joy of God beyond belief. When my dad died I learned this in a way that goes beyond explanation. Oh yea, I was extremely sad dad was gone and am to this day, that was 12 years ago, but I saw God as I had never before. I know dad is with Him not to ever suffer again. When God is first He can take suffering and make good come from it.

I'm not going to address the excuse stuff you posted,I did that in the previous post, look there for my answer.

The idea that if God to reveal himself, physically, to the world, my free will to choose to love him would be erased, is illogical.

I've said just that, Lucifer did it through his choice and so could you. This very thing will happen at judgment, people will be in His presence and still reject Him, screaming and kicking.

I do not love my mother and father because they are my mother and father. I do not love them because I know they physically exist. I love them because they have demonstrated, physically and emotionally, that they loved me and cared for me. They were the ones changing my diapers, feeding me, giving me advice and support. They were the ones teaching me. They are the reason I am the man I am today, for better or worse. That is why I love my parents. If they were bad people, if they hurt me, belittled me, the fact that they are my parents, the fact that they physically exist, would be irrelevant.

I agree wholly with you, what you seem to forget about God is to choose to be His child, and you will experience the same things but in a greater way, a way I can not explain to you and you accept it as the truth, these are the revelations from God that you hear Christians speak of. Until you allow Him to be Father you can't know.

If God appeared to the world, I would be forced to accept the fact that he exists. That is it. Whether or not I would pursue the sort of personal relationship Christians insist God wants would depend not on God's existence at this point, it would depend on what he does. Would thousands of children still starve to death every day? Would thousands die in agony? Would people die in random accidents? Would a select few have far more than they need while the vast majority has too little? Then, I would choose to spurn the God who allows it all to happen.

I can not answer that question as you have put it and neither can anyone else. You are asking questions that Christians ask God, "why God do these thing have to happen." I have some answers to this situation but as a nonbeliever you would not understand, not because you're dumb not at all, I do not think that, it's a spiritual thing that Christians spend years growing into and some never develop a relationship deep enough to understand.

So far, all the 'evidence' we have for God's existence is a holy book no different from any of a thousand other holy books. Unless I go out of my way to pretend otherwise, it depicts God as a distinctly negative force, the enemy and tormentor of the humans he created, an injust and capricious tyrant who cares only about himself. I can't love my brother because I don't have a brother. If someone insists that I do, I won't believe it until solid evidence is presented. And, even if he is real, if his personality resembles God's, I could never love him.

If God was real and it was obvious, the practice of apologetics would not be necessary. Like everything Godschild ever says, apologetics is nothing but lies and horse shit. I need no apologetics. I don't need fifty different justifications. I need only state the obvious: what does not exist cannot show itself.

Let's address the last thing you said first. What does exist is not required to show itself, the belief that what needs to show itself is yours and that is not reality. Wild animals can live out a life right under your nose and you will never know they are there, unless you have trained senses to see. Go into a forest and they can be even more mysterious, a mountain lion can live without ever being seen, unless one has the trained senses. God has left evidence of His existence and through the Bible we can detect these things, the Bible is a study book of God and His purpose and points directly to Him when one pays attention.

As far as I'm concerned apologia is about doctrinal differences between denominations, and I do not engage in arguments with Christians unless one is out of line on the basics of salvation, salvation has a given foundation that all should find agreement on. I doubt I've given you one answer that's satisfactory, but I told you how I see things and this is what's important in my life.