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From atheism to Christianity? How so?
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so?
(January 2, 2014 at 12:41 am)agapelove Wrote: Could you quote the exact text that is supposed to be an iteration of the golden rule? I would like to know exactly what you're talking about so we can examine the evidence. Also, Confucius was preceded by Moses and the Old Testament by 900 years, which is what I am claiming is the original source of the golden rule.

Do you have an explicit statement of the golden rule by Moses?

If you're referring to Leviticus 19:18, (“Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against . . . thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”), then I must point out that Leviticus reached its final form between the 3rd and 6th centuries BCE. While some of its composition predates the 6th century BCE, because it was edited up until that point, no single passage can be dated to before the 6th century BCE. Confucius was writing at this same period in time, during the 6th century BCE, so there is no way to claim that any passage in Leviticus in particular predates Confucius' quoting of the golden rule. And given that some of Leviticus may date to after Confucius, it's entirely possible that the editors of Leviticus got the idea from Eastern philosophy rather than the other way around.

I also notice you just completely ignored that rules of reciprocity similar to the golden rule occur in both the code of Ur-Nammu and the Eloquent Peasant, which I pointed out earlier. In particular, the Eloquent Peasant which dates to the Middle Kingdom (c. 2040–1650 BC) includes the admonition: "Do to the doer to cause that he do thus to you." Predating even the oldest of the Mosaic texts under the most liberal dating. Convenient of you to ignore it.

The first millennium BCE in China, India, and Persia, was a time of great advances in philosophy and religion, in which many of the ideas that appear in Jewish religious lore also found expression in other cultures. The first millennium BCE is in the middle of what is loosely referred to as "the Axial age" as there appears to have been a simultaneous blossoming of culture and philosophy across diverse cultures around the globe about this time. There is plentiful evidence that similar philosophies sprung up multiple places across the globe almost simultaneously, and the example of it springing up in first millenium BCE Judaism is therefore unremarkable and underscores Esquilax's point that your Judeo-Christian ethical philosophies are not unique and original to the Jews and Christians.

I've got numerous source books of both Chinese and Indian philosophy from this period, but I'm not going to waste my time looking up examples if all you're going to do is cherry-pick which evidence you respond to, and even then claim more than your evidence actually shows. The apologetic store house that you're dispensing these pearls from contains nothing but sand and rotten grain.




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Messages In This Thread
From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 7:05 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 26, 2013 at 7:12 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 7:24 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by NonXNonExX - December 26, 2013 at 8:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Jacob(smooth) - December 26, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 2, 2014 at 9:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 12:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 3, 2014 at 7:12 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 10:03 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 1:47 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 2:18 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 11:37 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by houseofcantor - December 26, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 3:29 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 26, 2013 at 11:58 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Simon Moon - December 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 3:33 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 4:04 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 26, 2013 at 5:02 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 26, 2013 at 10:47 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 27, 2013 at 10:58 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2013 at 4:09 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mothonis - December 26, 2013 at 7:42 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Dragonetti - December 26, 2013 at 8:18 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by StoryBook - December 26, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 26, 2013 at 11:39 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Polaris - December 26, 2013 at 8:33 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by AstroNat - December 26, 2013 at 11:54 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by c172 - December 26, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by downbeatplumb - December 26, 2013 at 12:39 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by AstroNat - December 26, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:30 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 26, 2013 at 1:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - December 26, 2013 at 3:11 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:21 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by MysticKnight - January 6, 2016 at 11:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by dyresand - January 6, 2016 at 11:49 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 26, 2013 at 2:14 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Drich - December 26, 2013 at 2:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:05 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Drich - December 31, 2013 at 12:23 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:08 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - December 26, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by houseofcantor - December 26, 2013 at 4:22 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 4:19 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:55 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 4:50 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 5:38 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 12:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 27, 2013 at 2:55 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 4:42 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 27, 2013 at 6:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Simon Moon - December 27, 2013 at 2:48 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 27, 2013 at 1:54 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 27, 2013 at 3:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 28, 2013 at 10:23 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2013 at 4:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Simon Moon - December 26, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 5:07 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 27, 2013 at 7:14 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 5:01 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 27, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 3:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 27, 2013 at 8:14 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 5:16 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 6:10 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 26, 2013 at 6:17 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 26, 2013 at 6:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - December 26, 2013 at 6:22 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - December 26, 2013 at 6:36 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 26, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Severan - December 26, 2013 at 10:03 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 11:56 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Dragonetti - December 26, 2013 at 11:59 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by popeyespappy - December 27, 2013 at 12:52 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 12:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Bad Wolf - December 27, 2013 at 1:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 3:29 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 28, 2013 at 12:50 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 28, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 27, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 4:35 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 27, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 27, 2013 at 5:10 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 27, 2013 at 5:15 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 27, 2013 at 5:31 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 27, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 28, 2013 at 8:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 28, 2013 at 10:11 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 29, 2013 at 8:49 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 29, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 29, 2013 at 5:00 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 30, 2013 at 3:27 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 28, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 29, 2013 at 2:54 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 29, 2013 at 2:55 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - December 29, 2013 at 5:11 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Lemonvariable72 - December 30, 2013 at 12:31 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Jacob(smooth) - December 30, 2013 at 4:31 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 30, 2013 at 6:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - December 30, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 29, 2013 at 6:09 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 30, 2013 at 2:40 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - December 30, 2013 at 6:43 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 30, 2013 at 6:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 30, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - December 30, 2013 at 8:50 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 30, 2013 at 9:07 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 31, 2013 at 5:46 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - December 31, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 1, 2014 at 4:21 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 1, 2014 at 9:33 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 1, 2014 at 10:55 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 2, 2014 at 12:41 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 2, 2014 at 1:55 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 3, 2014 at 2:30 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 3:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 3, 2014 at 3:25 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 4:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 3, 2014 at 3:52 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - January 2, 2014 at 1:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 3, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 3, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 4, 2014 at 6:58 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 12:17 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 2:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 31, 2013 at 7:20 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 31, 2013 at 4:00 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - January 1, 2014 at 5:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - January 2, 2014 at 2:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - January 3, 2014 at 2:33 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - January 3, 2014 at 4:24 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Polaris - January 3, 2014 at 9:45 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - January 4, 2014 at 12:09 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - January 4, 2014 at 12:27 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - January 4, 2014 at 1:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - January 4, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Bad Wolf - January 4, 2014 at 2:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 5, 2014 at 10:45 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - January 4, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Grasshopper - January 12, 2015 at 10:53 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by rexbeccarox - January 12, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 12, 2015 at 8:35 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Losty - January 13, 2015 at 3:15 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Grasshopper - January 12, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by rexbeccarox - January 12, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 12, 2015 at 6:34 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Cyberman - January 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by downbeatplumb - January 13, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 12, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Cyberman - January 12, 2015 at 8:50 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - January 12, 2015 at 9:22 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by robvalue - January 13, 2015 at 3:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 13, 2015 at 2:29 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by psychoslice - January 13, 2015 at 3:13 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by robvalue - January 13, 2015 at 2:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 13, 2015 at 2:53 pm

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