Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 20, 2024, 4:35 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Modal Ontological Argument - Without Modal Logic
#58
RE: The Modal Ontological Argument - Without Modal Logic
(February 16, 2014 at 3:38 am)Darkstar Wrote: Huh
it is a philosophical position called idealism. as i said before i can give good evidence for it but it's off the topic of this thread.

Quote:For what, exactly? The falsity of a non-falsifiable hypothesis? Do you have any evidence other than "metaphysical possibility" that independent minds can exist?
why exactly is your hypothesis non-falsifiable? that just seems like an arbitrary statement to me. and do you even know what you're asking? "do you have any evidence for the possibility of brain independent minds other than their possibility?" if it is metaphysically possible and it is not physical in nature, it is possible for them to exist. i do have more firm evidence that they do exist but again Off Topic

Quote:According to your logic, nothing can ever be ruled out unless it is a logical contradiction. While this is technically true, if we see a balloon floating, do we immediately assume that gravity has been reversed? No, just in the same way that there is no reason to assume that the mind is magically seperate from the body.
that's a false analogy and your point is irrelevant. as you said it's "technically true" it is possible for mind to exist independent of the brain, so i think it's time to move past this "mind can't exist apart from brain" point. it's dead and buried so move on.

Quote:But if it is physically impossible for a particle to move faster than the speed of light, then would not things that are metaphysically possible not necessarily be actually possible?
i don't know what you mean by "actually possible." if it is physically impossible for a particle to move faster than light, then it couldn't happen in this universe so long as that physical law remained constant. but as i said before, physical laws aren't necessary. they can be different.

Quote:Electrical impulses? At least we can prove those exist.
there is no equivalence between mind and electrical impulses. as i'm sure you already know, electrical impulses can exist without mind, and electrical impulses don't share properties with mind. there is a correlation, not an equivalence so the mind can't reduce to energy either.

Quote:I mean whatever dualism you are talking about. While substance dualism at least sounds vaguely possible, a "non-substance dualism" sounds like it would have to be straight up magic.
why? is it logically absurd for the mind to create something that resembles what is physical? i don't think so. it is very possible for a mind to create concepts as well as a mind that receives information that it thinks is real.

Quote:Actually, I said it only causes hallucinations to make you think you see a cheeseburger.
then it is not a cheeseburger. it is a being that takes that form. the MOA can only show that an omnipotent being exists, it can't deduce anything else about such being. so yes, it is possible for that being to do this, but not necessary.

Quote:Additionally, it is not omnipotent, merely non-contingent.
that doesn't work. it has to have some property that makes it so it can't be contingent. in order for it to be non-contingent and exist it must be necessary. if it is necessary then it can't be destroyed. if it can't be destroyed, it is omnipotent.

Quote:I presume this means that god cannot make an infinite number of things, then? Would that qualify as metaphysically impossible?
if and only if actual infinities are impossible, and i'm rather skeptical about that.

Quote:But what about your metaphysically possible particle exceeding light speed? As I said before (in this post, actually) not all things that aren't self-contradictory are actually possible.
since God is not physical, physical impossibility doesn't apply to him. laws of physics don't apply to him.

Quote:You can say that they technically might be, for all we know, but with that level of uncertainty, you might as well be arguing for Solipsism.
you are the one claiming uncertainty, not me. you are the one choosing solipsism alternatively, not me. i take monotheistic idealism rather than solipsism.

(February 16, 2014 at 4:00 am)rasetsu Wrote: You know that for a fact, do you. Where's your Nobel prize?

You don't know shit.

it's been known for quite some time. why don't you look up what a priori is, perhaps what Kant has to say on the subject.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: The Modal Ontological Argument - Without Modal Logic - by Rational AKD - February 16, 2014 at 4:20 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Belief without Verification or Certainty vulcanlogician 40 3433 May 11, 2022 at 4:50 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  The evolution of logic ignoramus 3 937 October 7, 2019 at 7:34 am
Last Post: onlinebiker
  Ontological Disproof of God negatio 1042 84809 September 14, 2018 at 4:05 pm
Last Post: LadyForCamus
  My own moral + ontological argument. Mystic 37 11236 April 17, 2018 at 12:50 pm
Last Post: FatAndFaithless
  Let us go back to "cold" hard logic."Time" Mystic 75 11520 November 10, 2017 at 6:29 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Logic Fallacies: A Quiz to Test Your Knowledge, A Cheat Sheet to Refresh It Rhondazvous 0 999 March 6, 2017 at 6:48 pm
Last Post: Rhondazvous
  Ontological Limericks chimp3 12 3298 December 22, 2016 at 3:22 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  On Anselm's 2nd Formulation of the Ontological Argument FallentoReason 7 3169 November 21, 2016 at 10:57 am
Last Post: FallentoReason
  On Logic and Alternate Universes FallentoReason 328 40246 November 17, 2016 at 11:19 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Formal logic for Dummies? LadyForCamus 48 8901 February 6, 2016 at 8:35 am
Last Post: robvalue



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)