atheism and children

[Pyrrho]

See, and that's the strange part to me. You get angry at people who think IVF is not moral, but Pyrrho (and others here) just straight up said they think having kids is immoral and that they look down on people who have kids. No outrage there?

First off, I haven't actually read through the other thread where Pyrrho and others allegedly made those comments. As a general rule, I only respond to comments I've actually read or heard others make. Argument by hearsay is just not my style.

And no, I don't get automatically outraged when other people have a different opinion about an issue that matters to me. But you seem to be conflating two separate issues. Based on what you've said, Pyrrho isn't interested in the precise method of reproduction (good old fashioned fucking vs. IVF), he has an issue with reproduction itself. Totally different discussion.

Yes, it is a totally different discussion.  If I thought reproduction were fine, I would have no problems whatsoever with IVF.

For what it's worth, I think it's rather disingenuous of you to try manipulate my comments into a discussion about what some unrelated poster said.

Yes.

Plus, as far as I know, Pyrrho hasn't actively tried to stop couples from reproducing using non-fucking methods, like IVF. The Catholic Church has tried to use it's influence to prohibit reproduction by IVF. It's one thing to hold an opinion on an issue: it's quite another to try and make it public policy.

I have made no effort to prevent people from reproducing, other than saying that I do not believe it is a good idea to do it.  I have made no particular effort against IVF.  Stopping IVF would be like stopping a tiny leak in a boat while ignoring a huge gaping hole in it.  That would just be silly.  There is no reason to single out IVF for different consideration.

So, CL, you agree with your church that masturbation and IVF are immoral? Don't deflect to Pyrrho (an others here), just answer the question.

Pyrrho, I'm not going after you here at all. Frankly, I find it a bit annoying that Catholic_Lady has evaded my main complaint about the Catholic Church's doctrine on IVF by trying to focus the attention on your opinion of reproduction.

It is fine.  It is okay if you do express disagreement with me.  From your actions, I know that in the past, at least, you disagreed with me on this matter.  If you changed your mind now, you still need to properly raise your children anyway, so it is not likely to change the actions that you should be doing at this point.

Obviously, I know plenty of people who have disagreed with me on this.  Like my parents.  Disagreeing with people and hating them are two different things.