atheism and children

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I just gotta say, I love all the thoughtful critiques of the Catholic's Church's position on IVF. Reading through everyone's comments (sans CL's of course) really emphasizes how arbitrary, petty, and (above all) nonsensical that position is. The issue is a bit too near to me, especially as a former Catholic, to remain calm, cool, and collected.

Based on CL's (and kingpin's) comments, it seems like absolutely everything involved with IVF is sacred, right down to the very medical implements necessary for IVF to occur. Yet there's this tiny little moment of immorality when sperm meets egg that is unacceptable to the Church. It's woo of the purest gibberish.

Even though I'm happy and proud beyond measure of my two boys, I'm still very aware of the social stigma attached to IVF chlildren; I've had many conversations with others who keep their infertility issues private because they feel a sense of shame that they need to use assisted reproductive technologies to have a child. As I said in my very first post, the Catholic Church's position pisses me off -- it amounts to "piling on" and seemingly justifies bigoted attitudes towards IVF.

My wife and I have not hid the details of their conception from our sons: my oldest has already received some comments from his religious classmates when he mentions how the doctors and nurses helped mommy and daddy make him. While I know he's strong enough to handle it, it irks me that he has to handle it in the first place.


Anyways, keep up the good work people.

RE: Bold, it irks me too, a lot, and it goes back to my point about the de-humanization of people classed as an 'other' by religious institutions for no other reason than "dunno, not 'sacred' innit?"

Modern medicine has helped hundreds of millions, if not billions, in both conception and birth. I don't need to post figures of death rates in women and children during birth even as little as 40/50 years ago before modern medicine finally got to grips with the trauma that is child birth. Presumably the RCC doesn't give a shit about, as an example, epidruals and other birth anesthesia, but use that same science to help couples struggling or unable to conceive and it's "nope! Sacred police gotta get in and stop that shit."

There should be no stigma towards IVF children. They're no different to non-IVF children. You're right when you describe all this criticism through morality as woo, because that's exactly what it is. Kudos to you and your children.