RE: The Atheist Obsession with Insulting Christians
September 29, 2015 at 9:57 am
(This post was last modified: September 29, 2015 at 9:58 am by TheRocketSurgeon.)
(September 29, 2015 at 9:48 am)ChadWooters Wrote:(September 29, 2015 at 1:09 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: And what faith did the persecutors hold? The vast majority of Germans in that era, including the ones who operated the death-camp machinery, were Christian. Little good it did them in moral guidance.
Therefore what? The Germans invaded Poland and occupied France as part of the Great Commission to spread the Gospel? No. They did it out of an idolatrous worship of State power. The faith of the German populous was irrelevant.
Actually, I agree with you almost 100%. The faith is relevant as a mechanism of how the Nazis got such compliance from the populace. However, you've made the same argument about Stalin to us, and ignored when we pointed out to you that it was actually Stalin's "idolatrous worship of State power", and not his atheism, that drove him to do the things he did. Seems odd that you'd bring this same argument to bear (correctly!) on Germany in defense of Christianity.
(September 29, 2015 at 9:48 am)ChadWooters Wrote: My own opinion is that technology has not made us more wise, but has relieved us of the economic burdens that compromised our moral judgement. It seems to me that industrialization allowed the abolition movement to take hold among other things. At the same time, I doubt the internet would have become such a force so quickly had it not been for the ease with which it allowed pornography to be distributed. So before we go attributing all the evils in the world to religion or overstating its positive contributions we must recognize that other powerful forces are in play.
Well, obviously I don't agree if you're implying that there are demonic "other powerful forces in play", but I don't see for sure that you are. If not, that's an outstanding summary. Well-written. Kudos and all that. (I would add the caveat that it was peoples' desire for ease of communication and access to information that drove the development of the internet, rather than porn, though I wouldn't write it off as a non-factor... but neither do I consider porn to be an inherently bad thing, except in some of the exploitation aspects, which I'd argue go with any shadowy industry; it is not an argument against porn that its female workers are so often exploited any more than it's an argument against fruit that we so often exploit vulnerable immigrant populations as barely-paid workers to keep the price down.)
To the broader point that with technology has come both great benefit and great challenges/problems, I could not agree more. Albert Einstein's letters about the problems of the nuclear age are as moving as any piece of scripture or poetry I've ever read.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.