If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?

[Sheed1980]

OK Tannen. Lol. I understand ur views on this but u haven't answered either of my questions. How many instances of a particular matter do u have to see in order to be a fact and not just a coincidence? Also how many facts have to be shown to u in order for u to believe it as true?

Again, you liking an old book only means you like that old book. Calling it a fact only means you like believing it to be fact. So what, Christians and Jews and Hindus also find "facts" in their religions too.

"Facts" in a unbias universal neutral setting have NOTHING to do with personal bias. YOU are the one suffering from selection bias and sample rate error. Dont feel bad, all religions suffer from use of bad logic.


Good logic does not start with presuming what you personally like. Good logic works like this.

Collect data through observation=plug data into established formula with control groups= repeat for decent sample rate=write down your findings=hand your findings over to independent peers to see if they can replicate your data and method. If they can, you are onto something. If they cannot, then you need to check your work for errors and start over.

Religious logic IN ALL RELIGIONS is bad logic.

"I like what I believe=pick a book and deity= therefore I am right"

If you cannot check your personal bias at the door you are not being objective.

I'm still waiting for your answer to my questions that ur avoiding

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Well I've mentioned the numerous miracles of the Qur'an.

Mentioning something is not the same as showing it to be true. For example I can mention that I've been instrumental for Limerick winning all their nine All Ireland titles (7 hurling, two football) which if you check is an obvious untruth. Until you show evidence for these "miracles" and show that they cannot have a mundane explanation, your boast of quranic miracles is as truthful as my boast of sporting prowess.

But first off I know we as humans were created by someone who is obviously a higher being than we are.

No you don't, what you are doing is taking the unevidenced assertion of the quran as truth, while disregarding the masses of evidence which indicate otherwise.

So with just for example some of the astronomical knowledge of our universe, listed in the Qur'an. Whoever's words these are placed in a scripture in the 7th century, when telescopes, satellites, computers etc didn't yet exist, and these words describe exactly what is happening in our universe today, over 1,400 years later, which we can and have verified and confirmed as true due to our technology, This tells me that someone, who put these words together is the One who created us all. So He is the One, alone I worship.

But your problem here is that every "scientific fact predicted by the quran" has two problems before being able to pass a truth test. First of all, every single claim to this effect is a (1,400 year past due) post hoc explanation of those verses. They were not flagged as "scientific predicitons" until after scientists came along and discovered the things the verses were supposed to predict. If they were truly predictive then people would have said something along the lines "because of what the quran says we should expect to see (to pluck a random example which I don't think is actually in the quran) x amount of moons around Saturn" and then go out and find that the statement is true. You cannot find something to exist, and then go back and say "this old book predicted it" after the event. Second, like the various christian "prophecies" (e.g. Nostradamus, or for an Irish version, Malachy) the verses are worded so vaguely that you could almost point to any major event in the world and say "Mohammed predicted that". When a piece of literature is so vaguely worded that it can point to two mutually exclusive events, then it has no predictive power.

See Allah gives us free will to believe and accept His guidance or disbelieve and reject Him.

But if allah is all powerful as islam asserts, then he cannot give us free will, as to have other actors than allah with independent action means that he is not all powerful. So what is it all powerful with no free will, or powerless with free will?

But with His mercy He doesn't just say "believe in my word" He also gives us many examples that support and prove His word as true, that we as people can verify even further than people before our time.

[citation needed]

Same thing when telescopes and microscopes were invented before our time. People used these inventions and were able to see that whoever put the Qur'an into effect knew exactly what they were talking about. And in the 7th century, when no human had this knowledge, this word could only come from our creator Allah Almighty

As I've demonstrated above, this last bit is nothing more than grade a porcine excrement. Sheed your god is nothing more than the leavings of a pig.

Again I feel bad that u feel that way but that is ur prerogative. U have been blessed with free will to do what u wish. Just because God is Almighty doesn't mean He controls us. He gives us free will and knowledge to determine what is right and wrong. When we sin we seek His forgiveness and mend our conduct. But if we don't seek His forgiveness and continue to do wrong, He shows us He is Almighty and punishes. Where if we obey He shows He is Almighty and rewards us.