(February 28, 2016 at 11:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(February 28, 2016 at 11:17 pm)Living in Death Wrote: I think the point is that it's a sensitive and significant topic, and that posting off the hand and dismissive remarks doesn't really come across as caring much for a topic that you posted yourself. Some people take Theistic beliefs and culture seriously, and we need to have serious discussions especially when regarding something as significant as objective morality, which may or may not land people in serious harm if cemented and further propagated into first world culture.
Objective morality is tricky, and it can be dangerous. Fair enough if you want to casually check in and out, but just bear in mind people take all of this very seriously, as it greatly impacts the world around us.
I did not realize that me believing that morality is objective was a particularly "sensitive" topic... at least not any more than the usual sensitivity of theism vs atheism. It's not like I was talking about abortion or something.
And my response wasn't dismissive AT ALL. I would have responded the exact same way regardless of whether or not the TV was on, because it is my honest answer. It's my only answer. Only thing is I had to edit it a few times before getting the grammar/etc how I wanted.
It's not that you believe it; it's that the church (not just the Catholic church) teaches that, since "objective morality" (whatever TF that is!) comes from God--their particular version of god, of course--then it logically follows that people who do not believe in YOUR god cannot have anything but subjective (inferior) morality. Many, if not most, who follow this line of argumentation go on to allege that we subjective moralists (a category from which they wrongfully exclude themselves, as we point out in return) have "no basis for moral judgments" against things like rape, murder, etc.
In other words, even using the phrase "objective morality" is a dagger thrown right at our hearts, following the common prejudice that we cannot be moral actors (except by chance hitting upon a moral that is shared by the religion in question). Many, many, MANY people in the USA believe that atheists are immoral or at least amoral, and as a result they're more likely to vote for a gay Muslim for office than an atheist. If you like, I can cite the polls that say so, but I suspect you've seen them, having been here so long.
When you started a thread using that particular phrase, and then weren't engaging our replies (which are, granted, often angry... can you blame us?), it can seem like you've written us off, as so many do, after smacking us with that allegation. Please forgive us if we step over the line in our vehement self-defense. I'm sure if you caught me on the wrong day with that argument, I'd be as salty as Becca, in my replies.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.