Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 3, 2024, 9:56 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
(December 19, 2016 at 7:33 am)Ignorant Wrote:
(December 19, 2016 at 6:58 am)robvalue Wrote: So you've just married existence with God, by definition. [1] So all you're really saying is that if something exists, something exists. [2] If nothing exists, nothing exists. That's a tautology, and you've added nothing to it by assuming God to be necessary and interchangable with existence. [3]

To be useful, it needs to be falsifiable in a way we can somehow test. [4] I can't run a test to see if stuff exists.  Obviously, it does, if I'm even here to run the test. So it can't be falsified. [5]

1) Right. That is what we say. God is existence, itself. God is his own existence, etc.

If all you're saying is that God is existence itself, all you've done is declare a synonym for existence.  We already have words that denote being itself and declaring God to be synonymous with being itself doesn't add anything to the equation.  However if you are suggesting that God has an existence that is more than being itself, that He has consciousness for example, then your claim isn't covered by your predicate.  The existence or non-existence of a consciousness associated with being itself isn't falsified by that declaration.  You've simply equivocated on the meaning of "being itself."

(December 19, 2016 at 7:33 am)Ignorant Wrote: 2) No, I am saying that if something exists, then existence itself must exist. If nothing exists, then existence itself doesn't exist.

The presence or absence of things existing doesn't get you to a god that is being itself with a consciousness.  What you've uttered is what is known as a 'deepity'.  Taken one way, it's true but trivial.  Taken another way, it's extraordinary, but also false.  In attempting to capture a predicate that is profoundly true, you've failed by equivocating on the meaning of the term 'God'.

(December 19, 2016 at 7:33 am)Ignorant Wrote: 3) God's necessity isn't an assumption. The reality of "necessary being" is a conclusion drawn from the datum of existence. You can disagree with the conclusion, but that doesn't mean my conclusion is an assumption. The existence of being-itself is a conclusion drawn from the things we directly observe to exist. Being-itself, on the same logic that leads to that conclusion, is false only if nothing at all exists. It doesn't seem that controversial.

Bollocks.  God's necessity is a thoroughly ad hoc postulation.  Regardless, you don't believe that the existence of being-itself is the same thing as God existing, so your point is moot.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist? - by Angrboda - December 19, 2016 at 9:39 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  British Non-Catholic Historian on Historical Longevity of the Roman Catholic Church. Nishant Xavier 36 1881 August 6, 2023 at 4:48 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Dr. Bill Craig's Debates: Why do Atheists lose/run away from debating him? Nishant Xavier 123 7142 August 6, 2023 at 4:22 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  360 Million Christians Suffering Persecution: why arent Atheists helping? Nishant Xavier 48 2134 July 16, 2023 at 10:05 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Atheists, if God doesnt exist, then explain why Keanu Reeves looks like Jesus Christ Frakki 9 1043 April 1, 2023 at 4:07 am
Last Post: Goosebump
  Atheists will worship the Antichrist and become theists during the Tribulation Preacher 53 3279 November 13, 2022 at 3:57 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  Athiest parent sending child to Catholic school EchoEllis 36 5282 December 2, 2021 at 10:24 am
Last Post: brewer
  Atheists: I have tips of advice why you are a hated non religious dogmatic group inUS Rinni92 13 2876 August 5, 2020 at 3:43 pm
Last Post: Sal
  Atheists: Why did female with fat butts and short legs exist? Lambe7 14 2000 July 30, 2020 at 7:17 am
Last Post: Gwaithmir
  [Serious] Why I consider Atheists the Dumbest of the Dumb theMadJW 63 8243 May 13, 2020 at 12:07 am
Last Post: Draconic Aiur
Lightbulb Here is why you should believe in God. R00tKiT 112 13646 April 11, 2020 at 5:03 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie



Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)