Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 28, 2024, 12:56 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Great marriage advice.
#39
RE: Great marriage advice.
(April 18, 2017 at 7:00 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:
(April 18, 2017 at 3:39 pm)Crunchy Wrote: Then I think we have different definitions of morality. 
If you mean principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior or a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, or culture that is meant to be good for humans (which is how I define it) then we have to determine in what context this applies. For example, it is not a moral question to ask if it's good or bad to be caught in a landslide. Falling rocks have no morality. So we can clearly determine that morality only applies to moral agents like humans.
  
IMO, the issue is not about morality existing outside of human beings, (making it universally objective) but whether the judgments we make are more than merely arbitrary.  Therefore, the facts concerning the physical nature of humans force us to gravitate to our basic needs as a means to any other end. You get nowhere without oxygen for instance.  I've pointed this out in other discussions around morality by highlighting Maslow's  hierarchy of needs. No one chooses what our basic needs are, therefore they are not subjective.

It is an objective fact that Maslow's basic rungs have value to us that allows us to survive long enough to pursue other goals. This means that it is an objective moral fact that it is in our interest to value these things. These would be the basic objective facts at the core of morality.

If, however, you define morality as anything you want it to be, then that definition has no boundaries and it is not possible to reach any conclusions about a definition that has no boundaries. Is this what you mean by morality?

Just did a quick look at Maslow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s...y_of_needs    I didn't see anything about objective morals, only needs (morals, not identified as objective, show up in self-actualization).  Don't confuse facts or basic needs with morals or values. BTW, Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a theory. Also see critiques. 

What the hell are you talking about landslides and oxygen for. Or even arbitrary. I have no clue where you picked that up from. It's morals, as in human behavior.

I'll work from this definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moral

OK, tell me how morality is objective.

Ok, here are the definitions you linked to:
a :  of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior :  ethical moral judgments
b :  expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior: a moral poem
c :  conforming to a standard of right behavior: took a moral position on the issue though it cost him the nomination

Right or wrong in relation to what? Right behavior about what? Well, that would be in relation to what is "good" for people, and how people should behave in that dynamic. (i.e. morality only applies to moral agents and not to falling rocks)

So now we have to figure out what it means to be "good" to people. Enter our basic needs as presented in Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Our basic needs are not a theory and there is no disagreement about them. The need for food, clean water and air etc...  are objectively good for us. This means that it is an objective moral fact that it is in our interest to value these things. These would be the basic objective facts at the core of morality. You cannot morally deny a child food and clean water without some other mitigating circumstance that you would have to have a convincing argument for, otherwise you are in contradiction of the definitions of morality that you yourself linked to.

I do not deny that progressing from this moral bedrock is easy but we can build upon this objective core to yield something more comprehensive. You will find the same basic position in Sam Harris' book "The Moral Landscape" where he argues that moral questions will have objectively right and wrong answers which are grounded in empirical facts about what causes people to flourish.
(I have only heard Harris talk about the book, I have not yet read it myself)
If god was real he wouldn't need middle men to explain his wants or do his bidding.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Great marriage advice. - by Jehanne - April 17, 2017 at 8:23 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Little lunch - April 17, 2017 at 11:08 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Faith No More - April 17, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Longhorn - April 18, 2017 at 4:28 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Neo-Scholastic - April 17, 2017 at 11:22 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Alex K - April 17, 2017 at 12:37 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Jehanne - April 17, 2017 at 12:53 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Isis - April 17, 2017 at 12:47 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by The Valkyrie - April 17, 2017 at 4:44 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 18, 2017 at 8:13 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by The Valkyrie - April 18, 2017 at 4:12 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 18, 2017 at 5:42 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by The Valkyrie - April 18, 2017 at 5:45 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 17, 2017 at 12:56 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Jehanne - April 17, 2017 at 1:30 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 17, 2017 at 1:46 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 17, 2017 at 2:00 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 17, 2017 at 2:37 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 18, 2017 at 3:39 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 18, 2017 at 7:00 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 19, 2017 at 1:38 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 19, 2017 at 5:13 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 19, 2017 at 6:26 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 19, 2017 at 7:39 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 20, 2017 at 3:06 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 20, 2017 at 3:57 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 21, 2017 at 12:46 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 21, 2017 at 3:22 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Thumpalumpacus - April 21, 2017 at 10:28 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 21, 2017 at 3:09 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Thumpalumpacus - April 21, 2017 at 8:52 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Crunchy - April 22, 2017 at 1:28 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 21, 2017 at 9:01 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Thumpalumpacus - April 20, 2017 at 1:24 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Jehanne - April 17, 2017 at 5:30 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 17, 2017 at 5:38 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Jehanne - April 17, 2017 at 8:01 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 17, 2017 at 8:17 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 17, 2017 at 1:03 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Catholic_Lady - April 17, 2017 at 2:09 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by WinterHold - April 17, 2017 at 3:52 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Gawdzilla Sama - April 17, 2017 at 4:03 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 17, 2017 at 4:41 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Jeanne - April 17, 2017 at 4:44 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Seraphina - April 17, 2017 at 4:55 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Gawdzilla Sama - April 17, 2017 at 7:08 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Thumpalumpacus - April 17, 2017 at 8:55 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by brewer - April 17, 2017 at 9:00 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Gawdzilla Sama - April 17, 2017 at 9:02 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by The Valkyrie - April 17, 2017 at 9:20 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Thumpalumpacus - April 18, 2017 at 1:58 am
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Shell B - April 18, 2017 at 7:24 pm
RE: Great marriage advice. - by Thumpalumpacus - April 19, 2017 at 2:07 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Some great news Apollo 11 1048 December 7, 2020 at 9:09 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  Advice about patience Macoleco 4 555 March 26, 2020 at 5:24 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Great (movie) Speeches onlinebiker 12 2130 September 6, 2019 at 10:21 pm
Last Post: brewer
  Maybe Vaping isn't a great idea. onlinebiker 9 1152 September 1, 2019 at 10:18 am
Last Post: LastPoet
Music The best advice someone gave you. onlinebiker 65 6254 April 14, 2019 at 8:33 pm
Last Post: chimp3
  The WORST Advice Someone Ever Gave You BrianSoddingBoru4 11 1094 April 14, 2019 at 2:12 pm
Last Post: Fireball
  It's a great relief purplepurpose 20 3444 December 8, 2018 at 4:26 pm
Last Post: Cod
  The Great AF Literary Masterpiece The Valkyrie 9 744 December 2, 2018 at 4:00 pm
Last Post: LastPoet
  Something Great Happened To Me Today... ReptilianPeon 2 998 October 2, 2018 at 12:54 pm
Last Post: ReptilianPeon
  PBS is great!! Jehanne 24 2345 September 12, 2018 at 6:44 pm
Last Post: Angrboda



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)