Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 28, 2024, 3:49 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Objective morality as a proper basic belief
#32
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief
(June 24, 2017 at 10:27 am)Khemikal Wrote:
(June 24, 2017 at 10:20 am)Little Henry Wrote: I think alot of the confusion arises with the use of the words right and wrong in this context.
Agreed, but you aren;t going to be the one educating, on this count.  You;re in sore need of an education.

Quote:If objective morality (OM) does not exist, then the words are being used naively and incoherently. It doesn't make sense. What do i mean by this?
It means exactly what they've said.  Regardless of whether or not a person thinks that some act x is wrong according to some objective morality, or because that;s a consequence of their subjective morality...they are telling you that it's wrong.  

But this is an illusion.
I say child rape is right, you say its wrong. Who is right or wrong? We cannot be both right as this would violate one of the laws of logic, namely the law of non contradiction. To people cannot be both right with opposing views.

Quote:The words right and wrong ONLY exist in relation to facts.
That's borderline crazy.  The words exist even if moral facts of any matter don't..even if morality is entirely subjective.  We're both entirely capable of considering each other's fact free opinions wrong.

How can something be BOTH right and wrong? That violates one of the laws of logic, namely the law of non contradiction.


Quote:A fact is something that is true or exists REGARDLESS of anyone's opinion, preference, taste or desire.
Sure, and the fact of the matter in a subjective moral assessment is that person a thinks x is wrong, regardless of anyone else's opinion, preference, taste or desire.  

If something is subjective it cannot be deemed wrong.
Taste in movies is subjective.
If i say the movie Taken 1 is better than Taken 2, am i right or wrong? Neither. It is incoherent to say i am right.
If you say Taken 2 is better than taken 1...then how can Taken 1 be both better and worse than Taken 2 at the same time.


Quote:Let me use some examples.
It is a fact that the earth rotates around the sun. It does not matter what i or anyone's else's opinion, preference or desire is, the earth rotates around the sun. If i said the sun rotates around the earth, then i am wrong. I am only wrong because the statement was in relation to a fact.

If i sat an exam, and the question asked was, "does the sun rotate around the earth" and i answered with "yes", then i would get a cross. Would i get a cross because of how the examiner or marker feels? There preference? Desire? No. They would give me a cross because they would compare my answer against the FACT.

If i said chocolate cake tastes better than carrot cake, i am neither right or wrong because it is not a fact that chocolate cake tastes better than carrot cake.
Suppose you sat an exam and the question was asked, "does chocolate cake tastes better than carrot cake?" Well, if you said yes, will you get a tick or a cross?
Well, you wouldnt get a tick or a cross, because it is not a fact. There is no fact if chocolate cake tastes better than carrot cake.

Suppose you said yes, and somehow you get a cross, well you would immediately see the marker or examiner. How could the examiner justify giving you a cross? Suppose they said carrot cake tastes better than chocolate, but you prefer chocolate cake over carrot, then who is right or wrong? No one.
You cannot give a tick or a cross.
This is because taste in food is subjective. The words right and wrong cannot be used in relation to non facts.
Equivocative use of the word "wrong" is only an example of why you can't accurately summarize others moral positions or moral agency.  It's an example of why -you- are wrong...but not...case in point.....in any moral sense.

I am sorry, but right or wrong only exist in relation to facts.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief - by Little Henry - June 24, 2017 at 10:53 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Possibly Proper Death Litany, aka ... Gawdzilla Sama 11 845 December 18, 2023 at 1:15 pm
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  Morality Kingpin 101 5772 May 31, 2023 at 6:48 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  How do I deal with the belief that maybe... Just maybe... God exists and I'm... Gentle_Idiot 75 6342 November 23, 2022 at 5:34 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  A Case for Inherent Morality JohnJubinsky 66 6425 June 22, 2021 at 10:35 am
Last Post: John 6IX Breezy
  Morality without God Superjock 102 8899 June 17, 2021 at 6:10 pm
Last Post: Ranjr
  Belief in God is a clinic Interaktive 55 5563 April 1, 2019 at 10:55 pm
Last Post: LostLocke
  Is atheism a belief? Agnostico 1023 81353 March 16, 2019 at 1:42 pm
Last Post: Catharsis
  Morality Agnostico 337 36960 January 30, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does? I_am_not_mafia 24 5218 August 25, 2018 at 4:34 am
Last Post: EgoDeath
  Why don't some people understand lack of belief? Der/die AtheistIn 125 22132 April 20, 2018 at 7:15 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet



Users browsing this thread: 5 Guest(s)