Objective morality as a proper basic belief

[Astreja]

Right and wrong are value judgements.  All value judgements depend on the point of view of the person making it, and are therefore subjective -- but this is not where it ends.  Rape is wrong in the eyes of the victim, and in the view of the average person, and according to the the laws of the country where I live.  We therefore have a social contract established to punish rapists.

Laws exist to protect us from people who do not respect our desire to be free from harm.  Is this really too hard for you to understand, Henry?

Good and bad are value judgements. Not right and wrong.

{Springy G bonks Henry over the head with a hardbound copy of Roget's Thesaurus)

Again, if OM doesnt exist, then there is no such thing as objective good or bad.

Correct.  There are times when saving a life is the wrong thing to do, and when destroying it is the right thing to do.  It's entirely dependent on the players and the circumstances.

Your problem my friend...

I am not your friend, Henry, and I have no interest in becoming your friend.

...is that you like everyone else absolutely realises objective morality exists...

So why aren't you on a psychic hotline with your Mad Mind-Reading Skillz?

...but you are trying to ground it in something else other than God.

Why would I ground morality in your imaginary friend?  Moreover, why would I want to?  I look at the Bible and I see a planet-drowning, blood-sacrifice-obsessed, genocide-commanding narcissistic bastard who's about as sharp as a sack of wet mice.

You cannot ground it in things like the victim.

And why not, pray tell?  Humans have evolved to be empathetic to one another's pain, and we see things as wrong largely because we recognize the pain they cause to the victim.

You are going around in circles. Your argument which i dont even think you believe to be true would result in a scenario where the victim thinks the rape is wrong while the rapist thinks its right.

If the rapist thought that rape is wrong, why would he commit such a crime?

I'm not the one going around in circles; I've been consistently on the side of subjective morality from the beginning of this argument.

I want you to think carefully now, how can something like rape be both right and wrong at the same time without the violating the law of non contradiction?

Oh, piss off, you sanctimonious little brat.  It's obvious that the "right" and "wrong" are vested in two separate viewpoints -- in other words, subjective.

If you really DENY OM existing which i know you dont, at best you can only say, the victim finds it undesirable, but not wrong. {emphasis mine}

Henry, as I intimated above, I'm pretty sure that you don't possess the ability to read minds, although we could set up a lab experiment to prove that beyond any reasonable doubt.  So much for "Thou shalt not bear false witness," wot?

You really dont want to bring the country's laws into this discussion because at one stage it was legal to gas Jews and homosexuals in a particular country. Does that make it right?

I call Godwin's Law on you.