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Objective morality as a proper basic belief
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief
(July 7, 2017 at 4:05 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
(July 7, 2017 at 3:57 pm)SteveII Wrote: Are God's eternal unchanging moral properties arbitrary?
If they're "moral" properties simply by being the nature of god..yeah...that;s the definition of arbitrary.  Whatever those properties happened to be..they;d have been the "unchanging moral properties". Gut a child or not gut a child...whichever one god did would be "moral".  [1]

Quote:Could they have been any other way? Perhaps, perhaps not--I don't think that is clear. I don't think it matters however, because you need God's nature to be arbitrary not in the sense that if could have been different, but that it still can be different.
.............................

Quote:The first horn "is something good because the gods will it" or
The second horn "do the gods will it because it is good?” but now 
The third option (that has no unwanted conclusion): it is not God's will that defines the good but his unchanging nature that governs his will and his commands to us. 

With a third option, there is no dilemma. 

Regarding moral significance, that is relative judgment.  I think the eternal moral properties of an unchanging God is a good place to anchor your morality. Certainly more objective than any other system.

Well, I mean except for the parts about god being an ever changing thing if you guys are to be believeed...and not being able to objectively comment upon that god in any way, or being able to cogently answer a moral dilemma...sure.  [2]

Meanwhile.....what's wrong with harm? Since you're so big on suspicion of others moral foundations...I suspect that you are using harm..and not gods nature, as the foundation for your own morality.  Could a god order the rape of a child and still be moral?  If so, how so, if not, why not?  [3] 

1. You're not going back far enough. Your example is on an action God might take that defines morality. I am referring to the nature that governs God's actions. Part of the definition of God is that he exhibits the greatest possible version of that trait within the constraints of his other traits (for example, justice constrains other traits like mercy). 

2. God does not change except in relation to created things. Having a relationship with something changes even God. God's nature surely cannot change--it's not even logically possible.

3. Regarding your hypothetical, you would have to ask whether God nature could allow him to issue such a command. So perfect love and compassion always apply, in this case there are no other additional constraint like preserving holiness or justice. So, no, God could not issue the command.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief - by SteveII - July 10, 2017 at 12:58 pm

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