List of reasons to believe God exists?

[Catholic_Lady]

I'll have to think about existence being impossible without god post.

To the more recent post:

1) I get what you're saying about people overriding morality.  But do you think that's even what was/is happening?  I get the sense, for most, it was just a way of life.  I vaguely remember Jesus talking about slavery and it was just like "be nice to your slaves.  And hey slaves, do some good slaving for your masters!"  I'm paraphrasing my misrememberings.  The point being, I don't think human wiring is "We're all in this together as humans", it's "People who are different are not as good."  And it's not based on maliciousness or wanting to feel superior, it's just the default.  That is what humans are.  And then after a while, some philosophers or thinkers start doing the math, and they're like "you know, maybe we're not so different after all!"  And a few decades or centuries, or millennium, or never, later, the rest of the people maybe start to come around.  But it's all swimming upstream, because people are not hardwired with some objective morality.  We're wired to behave in ways that you'd consider objectively bad.  

It just seems like maybe we're decent because we're like 200,000 years in, and some of us who live in nice houses and drive  cars, and can order pizza to be delivered to our homes, a few of those people are like "Yeah, whatever, everybody's cool.  Can I go back to eating my pizza now?"  We, 21st century fairly well off 1st worlders, are not representative of humans as a whole in any way.  I'm not even sure we're representative of ourselves truly.  Just ourselves in a really really really cozy situation.  We're the best and the brightest in the best possible situation, and we're still not that great.

2) I guess I'm not following, because subjective morality and objective morality have the same results.  I started that other thread about how Atheists try to blame the behaviors of religious people on religion, even though religion is the product of a godless world, in our opinion.  You're kind of doing the opposite.  If people are raping like crazy throughout history, and there is objective morality, then objective morality is just as ineffectual as you point out subjective morality is.

All of this.  The rape, genocide, murder, torture, slavery.  It's all being done, in your opinion, while there's an objective set of moral rules.  Yet it looks like how things would be operating if morality were subjective.  Even if Bob says "well, I think morality's subjective, so I'm going to murder a baby", you say "That shows subjective doesn't work!"  But he's still, in your opinion, operating under the umbrella of objective morality, and it doesn't have an effect on him.

To me, it seems like you want to be able to say "Well, he's not listening, but at least I'm objectively correct."?  What is gained from objective morality?  Judgement upon death, I suppose?  But if the only difference is judgement after you die, why would you be so convinced it's real?

Well first of all, from my understanding, when "slaves" are being referenced in that area/time period, they were actually people who owed some kind of debt and were working voluntarily in exchange for something. Not what we are talking about with kidnapping people and forcing them to work. But I digress...

As to your questions, you misunderstood my point. I wasn't trying to say whether subjective morality works or doesn't work in the sense of getting different results or whatever. My point was to show that we all still act as though morality is objective, even those of us who claim it isn't. That's what I meant. Example: A person can say morality is subjective and there is no real right and wrong or good and evil and it's all just a matter of opinion, etc etc... Yet that same person will still be completely furious at the notion of someone raping/torturing/killing innocent people. Heck people here get pissed off at Trump for wanting to prevent Mexicans from coming here illegally. If morality is completely subjective, then why get upset at someone merely having a different "opinion?" My opinion is that the best color is pink and the best food is sushi. Do I get pissed off at someone else saying they think pink is ugly and they don't like sushi? No. It doesn't work the same way with morality, regardless of how subjective and opinion based someone says it is. That person still acts as though rapists, terrorist, and Trump are objectively wrong and bad, not that they are merely people who just happen to have a different "opinion." I was trying to show that morality is a much deeper and more real thing than a subjective personal opinion.