(December 4, 2017 at 11:53 am)wallym Wrote: What you're doing by saying "Hitler is evil, right?" Is trojan horsing a bunch of your beliefs in a more palatable form. I don't think humans have value. I don't believe in morality. I don't think existence is bettered or worsened in any way by humans being murdered. In fact, I don't think there is even a measurement of the state of existence. It just is.
But by presenting "Hitler is evil, right?" everybody has to agree on all the things that go into Hitler being evil. I'm familiar with the strategy, because as a christian apologist in my younger years, I did the same thing.
I agree with William Lane Craig that people just give lip service against free-will and morality, everyone actually believes in these things, no one actually doesn't believe in these things.
Frankly, I don't believe Atheists when they say God has not been proven to them, a few might be like that, but there is a great amount that isn't. They lack faith and don't believe, fine, doesn't mean it hasn't been proven.
There is another argument I made that is along the following lines that summarize it:
If objective morality is not real, we would not know an objective moral fact.
We know objective morality requires an absolute source and origin and judge that maintains it if it were real.
That is an objective moral fact we know to be true.
Therefore morality is real.
Premise 2 is not really disputable with you. So perhaps premise 1? I can explain, elaborate, and support it, and I have had a discussion on this premise in the past as a Deist.
