(December 8, 2017 at 5:25 pm)Khemikal Wrote:(December 8, 2017 at 4:59 pm)SteveII Wrote: And my contention is that there are no changes to the relevant facts from then until now that are not "biases caused by feelings, ideas, opinions, etc., of a sentient subject". I am not aware of any metaphysical reasoning nor relevant scientific understanding that would avoid the conclusion that the abortion issue always was, is, and always will be based on an opinion of relative value of the mother's concerns/desires against that of the unborn baby's life--a conclusion that is the very epitome of subjective. Unless you can provide some, you have lost the debate.
Difficult to maintain without mentioning what relevant facts to which you're referring.
I already addressed the trivial subjectivity of opinions from the outset...so I guess we're at the point where you shit on your own board and strut off? That seems...counterproductive. Did you really intend to assert that the issue of the moral status of abortion is subjective? That would mean that declarations of it's immorality were also subjective. Is this what you're declaring victory over, is this your position? If, as this all began..the existence of objective morality was indicative of the existence of a god..and you are here at least...attempting to establish that there is no moral objectivity, where does that leave the assertion that from such objectivity comes a reason to believe in god?
Which one of us is a moral realist, and which one of us just declared victory in tearing down their own assertions?
Ah, you bring up a good point (though not the one you intended). You can salvage your position but the price you will have to pay for your "objective morality" is to condemn elective abortion on the same grounds a theist would condemn it: all human life has intrinsic value--a position you can back up with both metaphysical and scientific reasoning AND is does not contain "biases caused by feelings, ideas, opinions, etc., of a sentient subject". There's your moral fact of the matter. Well, are you ready to march on a clinic?
Where in any of my posts in this thread did I make the moral argument for the existence of God? You are deflecting.