(December 9, 2017 at 1:03 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:(December 9, 2017 at 12:10 am)Grandizer Wrote:
Like others have said, I don't think you understand what objective vs. subjective means. I don't even know what you mean by "subjective premise". That we have the ability to come up with a system to determine and assess the moral rightness and wrongness of acts means that it is possible for morality to be objective without the need for a upper being like God. Even if it were the case that we've yet to come up with an adequate system, or even if all the systems proposed have problems, this doesn't change the fact that objective [godless] morality is possible. In fact, any system that requires God to be the ground for morality is going to end up with lots of problems because no set of criteria that are backed by God is accessible to us, and it's not needed anyway (Occam's razor and all).
Anyway, it's ok to not be well-read on everything in philosophy. I admit my ignorance when it comes to ethics, so the best route for me would be to do some relevant reading and thinking in light of the new stuff learnt. I suggest the same for you and for the theist members here (e.g., Steve and C_L) who clearly have not read anything outside of apologetic materials with regards to morality.
This is kind of funny, because the second part I highlighted, shows that you do not understand what subjective and objective mean in regards to the moral argument for God. It doesn't have anything to do with it being accessible to us, ones knowledge of it, or speaking objectively about it. It is about the nature of morality, and what is the basis for calling anything right or wrong. An objective morality, is what gives one any real rights (that I have heard tossed around here a lot lately). It why you can talk about rights and morals outside of the individual or the social grouping, at all, and that they may be correct or incorrect in doing so. So despite your confidence, you are only demonstrating your ignorance.
Uh, thats you strawmanning me by committing a non sequitur. Not my problem if you cant read.