(July 21, 2022 at 7:17 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Unless you think there was literal magic involved, even god must have "created naturally".
At any rate, what Real Science says about the matter, is that if there was anything before, we have no way of figuring out what that may have been from this vantage point and with these instruments we have. We wouldn't even be expected to, if there were - as it was a fairly mighty fucking rearranging of stuff, if that were the case. Everywhere we look all we see is the effects of the bomb going off, not whatever hypothetical and illustrative building may have been stranding in the crater we now observe.
For some people, saying "I don't know" is a problem - for others, it's a matter of basic honesty. I don't think that, even if you accept a literal magical creation,that the next step is a whodunnit - you might be better served with a howdunnit. Especially if you want to compete with scientific explanations for any given x.
How was this somehow evidence that showed what I gave is not correct....
"Unless you think there was literal magic involved, even god must have "created naturally"."
How clear must I make it to show that it had to be done supernaturally? Have the decency to read what was put by me.
"we have no way of figuring out"
Yes, we do, we go by what we know now. I CLEARLY wrote going by what we KNOW that it can't happen naturally. You want to dismiss all of that. Then pretend you can.
I also wrote..Then after creation there are a WHOLE lot of things science never got around such as the fine-tuning of the universe so life can exist on earth, the beginning of life, the designs of life forms, the information needing to be there before life started, the synchrony needed from the start, asexual and sexual reproduction, consciousness, logic, etc.
Again, you just love ignoring what we know and pretend to be so truthful with your flippant...
"For some people, saying "I don't know" is a problem - for others, it's a matter of basic honesty."
So you don't know what fine-tuning is, what life takes, the designs, information, etc. You don't even know how to explain how we got human sexual reproduction that is here and now that you actually have some 'parts' for. You pretend to be honest and use the excuse that you just don't know about such things. You don't know because you have never been honest about what we know. You can play your game with others but I see clearly what you're doing.
The laws of nature prove beyond any doubt that creation (along with other things I listed) can't happen naturally. Naturally lost 100%, but to you it is still a winner as you ignore what the laws teach us and thus to you naturally still wins.