RE: Is atheism a belief?
March 6, 2019 at 7:38 am
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2019 at 8:27 am by Bucky Ball.)
(March 6, 2019 at 12:54 am)bennyboy Wrote: I don't need to define it. I just need to get out of bed in the morning, realize that I'm aware, and wonder why a universe with nothing but deterministic material objects and interactions would have mind as a property, under any system of organization, rather than not having it.
If you think mind isn't real, then I have to say that your motivations for typing on an internet forum are a little puzzling.
Such archaic medieval nonsense. The brain is real. Your religious assumptions are amazing and now you actually are saying you are a presuppositionalist. You really do know nothing about why evolution would produce awareness etc. Yes you do need to define it. You're claiming something exists, and yet you can't say what it is that exists, and what your DIRECT evidence is that there is such a a thing. A basic book on why evolution produced what it did might be a start for you. https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/evolu...hology.htm
Quote:You toe the party line loudly enough, to be sure, but what you haven't done is explain how you would determine that any physical structure or function would allow for subjective awareness. Here's where I'm at, and you can tell me where our opinions diverge:
It's TOW the party line. LOL. "Toe the line", in-fucking-deed.
Do you have "subjective" experiences about things you have never experienced or learned ? No. It's all about learning and memory.
It's not my job to educate you on the basics of psychology and neuro-science. If you want to revel in scientific ignorance, that's your problem.
It's very simple. You LEARN things, and remember things. Do you know ANYTHING about how memory works ? Apparently not. Do you know how memory is stored ? How memory is referenced ?
When you have an experience your new experience/input references the leaned memories. THAT is how subjective experience works. Again, it's not my problem you have no knowledge of neuro-science.
Quote:1) I know mind exists, because I experience ideas and feelings.
No. You have ideas and feeling because of brain chemistry, and a PET scan can watch that happening.
Quote:2) I believe that other minds exists, because I'm a person, and other people (for the most part) seem to act like I do in certain situations.
No. Same fallacy as #1, just extended. All brains work in a similar way.
Quote:3) I know that brains exist, and that the human mind has a very close connection to the brain.
No. You have not defined a "mind" in a way that could show it was DIFFERENT from a brain, nor have you stated or demonstrated what "close connection" is or means.
Quote:4) I do not know how the brain or any other physical system can allow for subjective experience.
Then take a class on the subject.
Quote:5) I do not know why a supposedly deterministic material universe would have something like mind at all.
It wouldn't. Evolution produced BRAINS in all sorts of animals, and apparently conscious brains in dolphins, some apes and humans.
Why ? It promotes survival. The better the brain, the better the chance of survival. Very obvious. Very simple.
You know nothing then. Brains exists and the functions of brains exist because they promote evolutionary survival. It's really very simple, and something a 3rd Grader could get.
Your ignorance of the subject is astounding. See the link above.
Quote:Unless, in your pointing to the brain, you can demonstrate on what level of organization mind supervenes, I do not know whether the elements of mind supervene on the entire brain, or certain kinds of information, or certain chemistry, or whether panpsychism is true. If panpsychism is true, then I would be tempted to say that the Universe itself represents both a massive mind AND a massive body, and I'd say that this would be so close to religious concepts of God that you could sensibly call it that.
Bla bla bla. I have nothing to demonstrate about a superfluous concept that is totally out-dated. Science knows that when various parts of brains are damaged the functions associated with that part stop working. You have no evidence for "mind". CT scans, MRI scans, PET scans demonstrate how brains work, and they have never once see or detected a "mind". "Mind" is superfluous left-over of philosobabble that has no meaning in 2019. Brains work because of brain chemistry. Nothing else. Psychology, psychiatry and neurology are replete with examples of what happens when brains are not working in a healthy way. Your woo of "mind" is ancient nonsense.
Just to sum up your arguments for mind and your "possible god in a box" : "I don't know, therefore woo".
"Mind" is nothing but another way woo-meisters posit "souls".
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archi...ed/485558/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...ciousness/
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist