RE: In Defense of a Non-Natural Moral Order
August 28, 2019 at 7:17 pm
(This post was last modified: August 28, 2019 at 7:32 pm by Objectivist.)
(August 28, 2019 at 6:30 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:Then you don't understand the concept "subjective". It has directly to do with the issue of metaphysical primacy. The concept "subjective" refers to the view that the subject has primacy over its objects. The concept "objective" refers to the view that the objects have primacy over the subject. To ignore this results in a stolen concept. You're using a concept while ignoring its conceptual roots. That different societies and people have different moral codes only shows that man has volition, it says nothing about whether those moral values are true, i.e., objective. So long as man is what he is, it will always be wrong to throw homosexuals off buildings, no matter who says otherwise. Even if every person on Earth said it was moral, it would still be wrong. Slavery was wrong in the past, is wrong now, and will be wrong in the future as long as man is man. I notice that you ignore the connection between life and morality. If morality truly were purely subjective then it would have no relation to any fact pertaining to man's life. He would be able to do anything he wants and suffer no consequences, but man cannot live any way he wants. He cannot escape the consequences of his actions. Those are determined by his nature which is not just a matter of opinion.(August 28, 2019 at 3:25 pm)Objectivist Wrote: Now if you want to say that my morality is subjective, show me where it assumes the primacy of consciousness.
There are different morals in different societies therefore morality is subjective.
That you do not follow the morality of Islamic state and throw homosexuals off the tallest building in shows that morality is subjective, it can be influenced by books and other people and of course alcohol.
There is no need to show this primacy of consciousness of which you speak just point to the fact that morals change with the wind.
Let me ask you, is the principle that if you want to live you should not eat poison mushrooms objectively true or is it just a societal convention? Do the people in China eat them and suffer no bad consequences? Your view of morality separates values from the requirements of life determined by man's nature and that right there is a stolen concept.