(January 24, 2020 at 2:57 pm)Brian37 Wrote:(December 10, 2019 at 10:18 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: The original purpose of what has now become traditional dress was modesty, and arguably justified as a way to protect women from rape in a barbaric time and region, but now it's purpose is tradition and a way to announce that you're a Muslim.
I wouldn't put it like that. In all of antiquity even outside Islam, girls and women were seen more like property than equals. Sure it was to prevent rape, but more so that your property doesn't get damaged.
Even in America females were blamed for their own rapes and women just hundred years ago were expected to dress a certain way too, even if not covering up their heads.
Body autonomy for women has been a recent progress in the west. While I would never suggest banning the hijab, I would argue what Ayaan Hirsi Ali has, being a former Muslim herself. I would argue that while Muslim women in the west have the freedom to wear it, that is not the case in much of the Middle East, it is mandatory, and the woman can be punished or even beaten for not wearing it. It is gender role clothing, just like LDS and Amish and it is patriarchal in meaning.
Of course they should have the freedom to wear it. What I am saying is that we are talking about a cultural practice that is based on what you are pointing to. Women being more objects than persons. And there is a number of Islamic scholars who will point to the fact that Islam was a religion that promoted gender equality. The veil / or hijab if you like, is a remnant of pre-Islamic Arab tradition that sees women as property and promotes polygamy like many ancient cultures.
Polygamy on the other hand, is said to have been temporarily promoted by the prophet as a solution to heavy causalities among the men in the ranks of his army.
In a nutshell: There is a lot of distortion of the original religious message of Islam. So one who wants to understand it has to do a certain amount of research.
Another example is female genital mutilation. No one can show me any proof that it has anything to do with religion. Yet it is widely practiced in north Africa as a part of their “belief system”. So do we tolerate that as well?
So there is an issue of tolerance. But this is not religious tolerance. This is the tolerance of a worldview with religious connotations that is basically a cultural and / or political worldview. What they are doing is to hide their narrow worldviews and totally rustic even barbaric way of life (that they don’t want to give up because of this or that reason) behind some fancy words.
/But this is also not an issue. People should have political freedom and freedom to express their cultural values as well.
All I am saying is: This is not religion. This is how they chose to interpret religion. And it’s totally their own problem. Not mine.