RE: Agnosticism IS the most dishonest position
February 25, 2020 at 1:14 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2020 at 1:24 pm by R00tKiT.)
(February 25, 2020 at 11:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I think that you might have missed a few steps before that "therefore heaven"
I didn't intend for that to be a complete case for heaven, all I'm saying is that what's actually happening is what a just God would do, if he exists.
(February 25, 2020 at 11:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You're clearly working with a different definition of surprise. I am not surprised to find that the necessities of existence are met, in the case of existence. This state of affairs is tautologically expected to be true. If some animal needs water, we expect to find water - but it doesn't matter whether a god put the water there or not. However water came to be, if a creature that depends on water exists...water must exist.
That's a vacuous reasoning. You're not really saying much except describing some existent reality. And any really fine tuned universe will have the same tautologically true stuff you're talking about.
(February 25, 2020 at 11:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: ...now, why this appears to be true in a natural universe is self explanatory
Again, you can say the same thing about a chair wired to fit the human body, and even derive your own chairtropic principle. None of that changes the fact that the chair was designed.
(February 25, 2020 at 11:38 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: 1. That the universe is fine tuned is a bald assertion, not an explanation.
And what would it take for you to acknowledge this fact? A golden skin?
(February 25, 2020 at 11:38 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: 2. Whether or not there was always something tells us nothing about the existence of any kind of intelligent being.
If the universe is indeed fine tuned, coming to existence by chance is no longer a reasonable hypothesis. We're left with either the multiverse or an intelligent designer.