Agnosticism IS the most dishonest position

[Abaddon_ire]

Unless the point was to kill us.  The soul forge strikes again.  As usual, apologists like Kloros arguments are dishonest, and do not accurately reflect what they believe about the world to be true.  

Yup. WLC was nailed on this. He tried to justify that children suffering and dying was a good thing. Kloro is merely brazenly stealing such christian apologetics.

Partly, this is because they are appealing to you, or us - there's a basic comprehension that a specific form of validation will be accepted by people with a vastly disparate view of the world.  Their arguments aren't meant to express the god or reality they believe in, but a version close enough - that you are expected to be more open towards.  In effect, they're attempting to apply our standards, but unfamiliar with those standards, fail spectacularly at doing so.  

Again correct. There is a reason that the Wedge document exists. It is a dishonest attempt top exploit the honesty of respondents.

What he really believes is that the world is designed to test, and yes...kill us.  That this is a deserved state of affairs.  That we are created to acquire virtues in order to be nearer to allah.  Adversity, all suffering even up to death - a requirement of soul forging.  It wasn't fine tuned to support our lives...or any natural reality.  It was fine tuned for soul forging.

Yes, but that is supposed to come later in the argument. Kloro has jumped the gun. Mostly through inexperience with the arguments AFAICS. This is understandable. He is attempting to use christian apologetics and apply them to islam. It is an odd tactic, since those apologetics eventually lead to a christian god, not an islamic one.

I would love to see him argue with Bruggencate.