RE: Question about "faith"
September 12, 2020 at 8:10 pm
(This post was last modified: September 12, 2020 at 8:25 pm by Simon Moon.)
(September 10, 2020 at 7:54 pm)rockyrockford Wrote: If "faith" is defined as "complete trust or confidence in someone or something".(dictionary.com) As an atheist, do you have complete confidence or trust in anything? or anyone? If so, what is the foundation for that "complete" faith.
I'm not looking for an argument, so you don't have to be guarded. I'm simply wanting to learn more about your belief, or absence of belief.
I am a little late to this thread, but I'll contribute.
First of all, the word 'faith' has several definitions.
The definition you are using, can simply be substituted with the term, "reasonable expectations", which to me, has a lot less baggage connected to it.
I do not have 'faith' that a chair will support my weight, I have reasonable expectations based on EVIDENCE. And, using that definition of faith, I do not have "complete" faith in anything. Since I know, that in rare occasions, a chair can collapse.
But this is NOT the definition most Christians use, when defining "faith", from my experience.
Most Christians I come across use the Hebrews 11:1 definition, which has nothing to do with defining faith as you are in your OP.
Hebrews 11:1 - "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". Which is defining faith more as, believing without evidence.
Also, a lot of theists I encounter, seem to think, that if one does not have absolute certainty of something (as I am not absolutely certain that a chair will not collapse when I sit down), then I am exercising some level of faith. Which is also wrong, since I have reasonable expectations that the chair will not collapse, but not absolute certainty. I do not think that absolute certainty is obtainable.
The foundation of my 'faith', or 'reasonable expectations', is evidence, reasoned argument, and valid and sound logic.
I do not have any of the Hebrews 11:1 type of faith. That type of faith is a horrible epistemology, and is not a path to truth.
(September 11, 2020 at 11:02 am)rockyrockford Wrote:(September 11, 2020 at 10:37 am)brewer Wrote: Since faith is a human quality, attaching eternal to faith is a bit of a reach for atheists.
There may be eternal things, human faith is not one of them.
brewer, could you please tell me, is "atheism" considered a human religious belief system, even though a deity isn't worshipped? Or would an atheist consider themselves 100% void of any spiritual belief. That they simply exist one day, and they don't the next.
Thank you!!
I'll give you my opinion on this.
Atheism is not considered a belief system. How can it be?
At its most fundamental level, atheism is simply, not being convinced that gods exist. Atheism for many atheists (the majority?), is usually a provisional mental state, not a dogmatic one. In other words, my atheism will continue, as long as theists continue to fail to meet their burden of proof to support their claims that a god exists.
As far as atheists being void of spiritual beliefs, no. Atheism only defines one as not being convinced of god claims, There are some atheist that have other, 'spiritual' or supernatural beliefs. I'm sure you will find atheists that believe: astrology, Tarot, ESP, ancient aliens, etc.
Just because one is an atheist, does not make them a skeptic or a critical thinker.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.