(September 20, 2020 at 1:38 am)Rahn127 Wrote:(September 19, 2020 at 9:48 pm)Sal Wrote: Faith can't pass an acid test. That's not how faith functions, or what it does.
This in no way addresses my question and has nothing to do with faith.
I know.
It's theists who think faith and belief are comparable in some esoteric manner, without ascribing faith and belief to the same phenomenon in minds (although John seems to be using them interchangeably). In essence, it's either two distinct qualia or an epistemic contradiction (more accurately an epistemic paradox). The reason I think this way is described and explored in great detail in a Stanford publication:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemic-paradoxes/
Any such demonstration of the veracity of belief misses the point theists are making about faith.
(September 20, 2020 at 1:38 am)Rahn127 Wrote: If you believe that something exists, then name one thing that it does.
My question is how we test that it's doing that thing ?
I believe this ball exists.
This ball bounces
I can demonstrate the ball and it's ability to bounce.
Do you understand the questions I'm asking ?
If you believe that a god exists, name something this god does.
Now demonstrate that this god is doing that thing.
You're preaching to the choir. I agree on a "connection" between an instance of existence and the properties of such an instance of existence. Theists usually do not apply this to the supernatural. That's how their faith escapes detection for irregularities when compared to reality (I know the existence of a ball. I've observed the ball bounce. I can demonstrate that the ball has a property tied with it; the balls property of bouncing. Now do that with faith.)
For theist, there are impositions against testing their faith - it's part of the mind virus that is religion, which directs their thinking behavior, and its memetic evolution - in the same manner any paradox is internally unresolvable by definition. But paradoxes are nothing more than logical hurdles which any constructed sentence so easily demonstrates; "This sentence is a lie.", "I am a married bachelor.", or my current favorite, the epistemic paradox: "Next week there will be a surprise test."
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman