RE: Question about "faith"
September 20, 2020 at 6:59 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2020 at 7:01 pm by Belacqua.)
John has been clear and consistent throughout the conversation that belief comes first, and then once you believe that a thing exists, you may or may not trust it. He says that it works for God as it works for the dentist.
Apparently, you refuse to believe that John and many others really do believe that God is real. For them, it's not like believing in an unreal dentist. The conviction that God is real is not a faith proposition, since they are convinced.
To say he "refuses" to believe that God isn't real, you'd have to show that the non-existence of God has been adequately demonstrated, and that he is stubbornly ignoring that proof.
It may be that to people who don't believe in God, a Christian's belief seems to include something like faith, where "faith" refers to some kind of willful choice to accept something that hasn't been demonstrated. Like believing there must be a dentist around the next corner, even though you have no evidence for that. John has been clear that he isn't using the word "faith" in that way.
For people who already believe, though, the belief question and the faith question are separate. Belief is prior to trust.
So if you want to assert that John's belief is like believing in a dentist that doesn't exist, you'd need to go back to all the old arguments that there is no God. But that's a separate question to the one about faith. And since he's pretty clearly heard all the old arguments, I think we can be confident that he's sincere in what he says. He believes, for what he takes to be good reasons, and the trust follows on from that.
Quote:You refuse to believe that this dentist you TRUST isn't real.
You just gotta have faith that this dentist you trust is real.
Apparently, you refuse to believe that John and many others really do believe that God is real. For them, it's not like believing in an unreal dentist. The conviction that God is real is not a faith proposition, since they are convinced.
To say he "refuses" to believe that God isn't real, you'd have to show that the non-existence of God has been adequately demonstrated, and that he is stubbornly ignoring that proof.
It may be that to people who don't believe in God, a Christian's belief seems to include something like faith, where "faith" refers to some kind of willful choice to accept something that hasn't been demonstrated. Like believing there must be a dentist around the next corner, even though you have no evidence for that. John has been clear that he isn't using the word "faith" in that way.
For people who already believe, though, the belief question and the faith question are separate. Belief is prior to trust.
So if you want to assert that John's belief is like believing in a dentist that doesn't exist, you'd need to go back to all the old arguments that there is no God. But that's a separate question to the one about faith. And since he's pretty clearly heard all the old arguments, I think we can be confident that he's sincere in what he says. He believes, for what he takes to be good reasons, and the trust follows on from that.