RE: Morality without God
April 7, 2021 at 8:44 am
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2021 at 8:46 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Good link. I really enjoy the portion about object oriented attention right at the end...and then the subsequent q/a about moores unapprehended world of value. What about the trees, she wonders. I like to use a caveman and a fire extinguisher.
Without rehashing it in full, what gives the fire extinguisher value? Is it the cavemans goal of not dying in the burning terror box we used our time machine to beam him into?
(we have all sorts of cool toys and no moral reservations as to their use in my thought experiment world, lol)
Well, no. That's a statement of his goal, but not a description of why the fire extinguisher is good-for accomplishing that goal. That explanation will be synonymous with a scientific claim about the chemical composition of the can - which remains unchanged whether anyone apprehends it, both before and after our caveman realizes (or is shown) the use to-him. In fact, it's only useful to him, extrinsically useful, because of it's intrinsic utility in suppressing fires.
His appraisal is subjective, and it can change based on some fact about him changing (his state of knowledge about fire extinguishers, in this case) - but the utilitarian value of a fire extinguisher is there even if there's no one there to apprehend it, even when people fail to apprehend it, and even when there are no fires to put out. She get's on to that at the very end - with relational realism. The value is real, (meaningfully)mind independent and object oriented - but exclusively and uniformly apprehend by human beings with regards to it's relationship to us.
Demonstrating the use of the fire extinguisher to the caveman doesn't create the value, doesn't change anything about the can or the fire or even the cavemans use-value beliefs, but does show the value in relation to him. It's not subjectively and non emprically good-for putting out fires, such that it's use-value is created ex-nihilo in the mind of the observer. That's just a tick of human moralization that we're very well aware of, even if we find it difficult to divorce ourselves from (and perhaps even imprudent to divorce ourselves from)...in practice.
Without rehashing it in full, what gives the fire extinguisher value? Is it the cavemans goal of not dying in the burning terror box we used our time machine to beam him into?
(we have all sorts of cool toys and no moral reservations as to their use in my thought experiment world, lol)
Well, no. That's a statement of his goal, but not a description of why the fire extinguisher is good-for accomplishing that goal. That explanation will be synonymous with a scientific claim about the chemical composition of the can - which remains unchanged whether anyone apprehends it, both before and after our caveman realizes (or is shown) the use to-him. In fact, it's only useful to him, extrinsically useful, because of it's intrinsic utility in suppressing fires.
His appraisal is subjective, and it can change based on some fact about him changing (his state of knowledge about fire extinguishers, in this case) - but the utilitarian value of a fire extinguisher is there even if there's no one there to apprehend it, even when people fail to apprehend it, and even when there are no fires to put out. She get's on to that at the very end - with relational realism. The value is real, (meaningfully)mind independent and object oriented - but exclusively and uniformly apprehend by human beings with regards to it's relationship to us.
Demonstrating the use of the fire extinguisher to the caveman doesn't create the value, doesn't change anything about the can or the fire or even the cavemans use-value beliefs, but does show the value in relation to him. It's not subjectively and non emprically good-for putting out fires, such that it's use-value is created ex-nihilo in the mind of the observer. That's just a tick of human moralization that we're very well aware of, even if we find it difficult to divorce ourselves from (and perhaps even imprudent to divorce ourselves from)...in practice.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
