Homosexuals and Heaven

[ElDinero]

Looks to me like you've sunken so low as to attack me personally instead of maintaining that I have the right to my opinion, whether its bible based or not. Unless you're sticking up for yourself I don't see a reason for you to be so hostile about this subject. Is it because of your friends, someone you love? Haven't I made it clear that I do not express this view because I do not push my ways on others? Haven't I made it clear that my brother in law, my former boss, my coworker, my close friend are gay and yet I get along just fine with them? If they asked me I would definitely share my views, but it is not until now that I have approached the subject, actually...the entire reason I responded to this thread was to see if you El Dinero could still be respectful and friendly with me, even though I have a different position on this subject. You and the others talk about judgment, that I pass judgment on others while you pass judgment on me.

Read my posts and you'll soon learn what respect looks like, read your posts and I believe you will find the very definition of judgment.

As I said, I do not have to respect opinions just because they are held, or people just because they exist. You have the RIGHT to it, but respect is earned. You started out with some, then you revealed your thick headed, offensive opinions and lost it all. A couple of other things:

1. The fact that you think I need to either be gay or be close to someone who is gay to find your opinion offensive is pathetic. I know some gay people, but my opinion isn't based on that. I don't know many black people, but racism offends me just as much.
2. The fact that you can get along with people who are gay is irrelevant. You are still looking down your nose and judging them for what they are. You can try and avoid the comparison between homosexuals and black people if you want, but it's disingenuous. Your distinction has now moved to 'You can't SEE that someone is gay' - what does this have to do with anything? The fact remains that neither can, or should, change what they are. I can't believe I have to reiterate this point, because I have made it at least twice already. Read this carefully, and let it sink in: The only reason people have to 'come out of the closet' is because of people like you. The closet only exists because of people like you. Your religion has been building closets for centuries, and continues to build them, and you are PERSONALLY culpable for this. You. This is a societal construct based in religion. It does not make the act itself immoral. Get that through your thick head.

I may take a stab at this one, though it will be my last post for the night. homosexuallity attacks the very foundation that marriage and family are based upon. the unnatural union of two men, or two women, degrades the value that family gives to society. ultimatly though, you cannot get an answer to this. I am new to this, but i have already read more than one post where an atheist said they were "good people", but to who's standards, because if you dont believe in any form of "god", and have no standard to base right or wrong of of but your own, how do you know what is what?

I came out all guns blazing at this post, then I read your intro thread and felt a bit guilty, so I've come back to edit. You'll have to forgive me, I've been dealing with salty for a few days on this topic and her opinions are so offensive that it's got me a touch on edge.

That said, I suggest you do some reading in this thread and a few others before jumping in, you may find you get some answers there. A quick riposte to some of the above:

1. How does homosexuality attack the foundation of marriage/family?
2. What value does a heterosexual couple give to society that a homosexual couple could not?
3. The 'where do you atheists get your morals from' is a tired argument, but I'm willing to grant you some leeway as you may not have had this explained before. However, so as not to derail this thread, I believe there is a thread on morality kicking around somewhere so if you have questions, maybe you should have a quick look for that. I think it's in the 'Religion' forum. Pop a few questions in there and I'll be happy to weigh in later.