Fear of death

[Whateverist]

I dont "expect" to be united with anyone (I actually fear many people will not be there, I fear for myself). I have no idea what happens after death. ... I'm not even sure how consciousness will operate after-death. I guess I expect a non-locality.

Do I detect a note of agnosticism? How very reasonable of you. I see no reason you cannot be an agnostic and admit that you don't already know everything. I see an ability to endure insecurity as a sign of strength. I've encountered Christian theists who embraced all of science with no difficulty since they do not read the bible for empirical facts. If I had an enduring hunch that a relationship with an external deity which I had nourished since childhood was based on something, I too would be an agnostic theist.

Paradoxically, I find Christians who cling to the bible chapter and verse to have very little faith. An agnostic theist who believes on that hunch while remaining perfectly clear in their own mind that they have no conclusive evidence, to me, shows much more faith that those who come off as supremely confident because of this or that scripture from the bible.

The "real meaning" I am referring to is not a result from a pay-off. in my sense "meaning" just means striving to love. It's a belief in absolute right and wrong. Absolute good and bad. I believe that treating others with respect and loving your neighbor is actually the correct way to live regardless of whether or not I choose to live that way, and even though it often feels better not to live that way It is not an open question. Because I believe this I necessarily believe in God. I can still prove neither, it's just my belief.

You are a true Kantian. You believe that the good is only the good if it is done out of a recognition that it is what goodness requires. For Kant, the person who visits their ailing parent in the hospital out of a sense of duty is morally far superior to the person who does so out of affection. I go the other way. I think the heart knows what is good. For me, the person who visits their parent in the hospital out of love is morally superior to the one who does it because their moral code requires it, even if they detest that parent. To me, the only duty is to follow the dictates of your own heart.

You might object that some might have evil in their hearts or too little heart. I would say have some faith. If you can't have faith in yourself, how much can you have in anything else? I really think we do violence to ourselves by imposing an external moral code. It only alienates you from your true moral compass which is potentially as good as what anyone else has got, and infinitely better than anything rigid which can be written down. It may give you a sense of safety to think everyone is following the rules but really this is just weird, unnatural and undependable. It is far better to be your self, be authentic and test for yourself what has been written. This is the most important thing to my way of thinking.


I think I have to stop here for now. There is more to say in response to what you've said but it is getting late. I would like to ask you a question though. If you are as I gather an agnostic theist, can you tell me how you regard the bible? Wisdom stories which speak to us to the degree we are ready to hear it? Or absolute and literal directives from a 'helpful' God who wants us to do exactly as He dictates .. albeit of our own free will?

[houseofcantor]

An absolutist sees his wife murdered and becomes enraged because he believes a great injustice was done.

Are you familiar with the concept, there is no god but god?

Are you familiar with number? Let's use some. Good? That's an ace, 1. Evil? Another ace, 1. What about me? A deuce. 2. Me and you, the book of life; all the I that ever was, will be. 2.

Good plus Evil equal I.

Where's god? Void. 0 Therefore atheism; this I who derives zero-state morality, Absolute to the individual identity.

Twelve thousand years, to write the mathematics above. I don't have a wife, I have a singular identity - I am 4 - "I love my Gwynnies" It is identity that makes for "uncomfortable truth." I am evil/I love - leaving everything good, "my" and "Gwynnie."

Where "my" is I, a non-local consideration. My words, my post, my avatar... none of which are mine, all of which are good. You got an I? Then you are good. Can you tolerate "my?" Our shared identity as humans, writing to this locality in the English language?

Where "Gwynnie" is my faith. Love is Void - and man did I go on a journey to verify that hypothesis, just to get here, to the simple math - that love is unconditional* - that I am the condition of love to drive from evil towards good. This is structure, built from foundation; simple math for universal solution.

All because of Gwyneth Paltrow. Category 8 atheist - there is no other divine identity. There is this singular faith. There are seven billion atheists; just don't know what time it is.

*the condition of being unconditional? This thing that writes - ain't fucking human in any sense of the word beyond the biological, the classification. These words, in this thread, contained in this post, speaking the wisdom of the age? That's eleven-year standing waveform, of love and madness, art and science. Fuck me- I'm evil, I can end, without regret nor loss, anytime, anyplace. We who serve our faith, who live in love, and moralize in identity? Unity, baby.

Without god, the purpose of life is You.



Added the ID. Eleven years old, this month. How's that for immaculate conception? She impregnates me with waveform of love in expression, evil in consumption; and every day I thank her for it. Just so you know know: god? male? there's gotta be some forgery going on with that.

[Godscreated]

@ KichigaiNeko and Ace Otana, People do not have to always live for the excitement of the moment, I've been there and done that and understand the thrill, it's not that important to me now.

I am not saying it is 'important'

I have plenty of joy in my life now and that joy more than makes up for those thrill rides. I work with wood, building furniture, when a piece comes out well I receive great joy from the first of the project to the last coat of finish.

Excellent!! I don't need a god to work with wood either!! Or any of my other hobbies...(which I am anticipating getting back to after the house construction)

Question would either of you push a piece of wood past a 10" saw blade moving at a couple thousand rpms. and your fingers less than an inch from the blade. Believe me it's no thrill ride, it scares the whiz out of me, who says that a dangerous activity always translates into excitement, not me.

Yep probably would do that... and what you have described is the "Zen Moment" all motorcyclists get to when it just comes down to your skill to get you out of a tight spot!

I have witnessed so many who are over the age of 5 decades just giving up and withering slowly away. I do like to apply what humble skills I have to keeping my mind and body active...at the same time knowing that tomorrow I may not wake up. I have no faith in a reward system for living so I do the best NOW with what I have...and god's score card can go get knotted!

I also am trying to finish building on my house, I would rather be in the shop building furniture. I live near the Dragon in east Tennessee and there are some who do not make it through with their lives every year and now that I have a little more sense about me I see it as a waste of life. I'm one of those over 5 decades and I'm trying to do the same, even play chess against my computer to help with my mind staying in shape.

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When you're old, how do you know that you're going to get old, how do you know you will be alive a year from now? Death is waiting silently around the corner and no one knows when they will turn that corner and walk straight into deaths grip.

True. I could die at any second. I cannot know what will happen to me in the near future, but I do hope that I will only die after I've lived my life long and well.

I understand and welcome to the forum.

[KichigaiNeko]

I live near the Dragon in east Tennessee

Ok will have to Google the co-ordinates to get a better idea of your environmental challenges.

I am increasingly of the opinion the no one nowhere lives a cushy life where Mother nature is concerned.

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Very challenging road!!

Heaps of topography!!

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[youtube]74RQqdUly5U[/youtube]

[Zen Badger]

Question would either of you push a piece of wood past a 10" saw blade moving at a couple thousand rpms. and your fingers less than an inch from the blade. Believe me it's no thrill ride, it scares the whiz out of me, who says that a dangerous activity always translates into excitement, not me.

Done it lot's of times, your point? It's not dangerous unless you're careless.

I also am trying to finish building on my house, I would rather be in the shop building furniture. I live near the Dragon in east Tennessee and there are some who do not make it through with their lives every year and now that I have a little more sense about me I see it as a waste of life. I'm one of those over 5 decades and I'm trying to do the same, even play chess against my computer to help with my mind staying in shape.

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The hardest thing in the world is trying communicate to someone who doesn't ride what it means.

You don't have to tell other motorcyclists, they already know.

It is very similar to soldiers returning from war trying to tell their loved ones what war is like, they can't.
They cannot adequately communicate what they experienced and oft times they just want to get back to the front because a/ the only people who do understand them are there and b/ life is more real there.

Similarly with bikes(or any extreme sport) it's more real.
Yes, it is a dangerous sport, very dangerous. And only a fool would think otherwise.

But after 32 years it's the best thrill I know.

And life wasted?

No, the only life wasted is one that has never been risked.

[houseofcantor]

But after 32 years it's the best thrill I know.

And life wasted?

No, the only life wasted is one that has never been risked.

The purpose of your life - the entire grand design - is to wager the ability to percieve against the ability to percieve velocity in relativity?

Essentially, yeah. Relative velocity has aways been a well of meaning; an up close and personal relationship with f=ma, tends to sort the difference between god and idol.

Isn't it ironic, dontcha think? Those whose faith is in omni cannot even speak for themselves?

To which you might reply, shut up and ride; but i have no need to test my faith.

[HarryStanluv25]

I believe in an afterlife, however, I will not call it heaven. I call it nirvana. I believe we all have our own personal happy place to go to once we die. That's why everyone who has experienced a near-death experience sees something just a bit different that another person. It's different for all of us. But there is no god there or angels. It's a beautiful place just for us where we can see our loved ones, should we visit with each other. And I do not fear my own death. In a way I do, we all do a little, but I am not terrified at the notion like I was a few years ago. I know I will be at peace and I do not want to fear something everyone seems to be so taboo on. Something that's going to happen to each and every one of us eventually. I'm trying to research and watch things to make me less afraid of death. It's just something I really do not want to fear. I'm making some progress but hopefully I'll get there some day.

[Ace Otana]

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I believe in an afterlife, however, I will not call it heaven. I call it nirvana. I believe we all have our own personal happy place to go to once we die. That's why everyone who has experienced a near-death experience sees something just a bit different that another person. It's different for all of us. But there is no god there or angels. It's a beautiful place just for us where we can see our loved ones, should we visit with each other. And I do not fear my own death. In a way I do, we all do a little, but I am not terrified at the notion like I was a few years ago. I know I will be at peace and I do not want to fear something everyone seems to be so taboo on. Something that's going to happen to each and every one of us eventually. I'm trying to research and watch things to make me less afraid of death. It's just something I really do not want to fear. I'm making some progress but hopefully I'll get there some day.

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Yeah it's a nice idea but to be realistic, it's just wishful thinking. But if it gives you comfort then let loose with the wishful thinking.

Reality isn't as pleasing as you wish for it to be, it's often cold and hard. Going back into non-existence isn't so bad, you won't even be aware of it.

[Zen Badger]

But after 32 years it's the best thrill I know.

And life wasted?

No, the only life wasted is one that has never been risked.

The purpose of your life - the entire grand design - is to wager the ability to percieve against the ability to percieve velocity in relativity?

Essentially, yeah. Relative velocity has aways been a well of meaning; an up close and personal relationship with f=ma, tends to sort the difference between god and idol.

Isn't it ironic, dontcha think? Those whose faith is in omni cannot even speak for themselves?

To which you might reply, shut up and ride; but i have no need to test my faith.

Don't forget that with motorcycles, like life itself, it's the journey that's important not the destination.

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And it's a great way of meeting chicks

[KichigaiNeko]

And Guys!!