Interpreting Mark 15:34--'eloi 'eloi lama sabachthani

[Cinjin]

Mark portrays Jesus as a failed messianic pretender who nevertheless was regarded as a uiou theou by the centurion in charge of the crucifixion, thereby providing the dramatic conclusion of gMark and the "proper" assessment of Jesus according to the author of gMark. It is also noteworthy that the author presents a high view as being spoken by a Roman, a centurion, Jesus' own executioner.

The question of debate: Does Mark 15:34 probably contain the words of a historical Jesus?

This statement is no more qualified for review than this one out of Exodus: So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up." When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"


Yeah ... I also don't spend time contemplating the legitimacy of the stories of Hans Christian Anderson, The Brother's Grimm or Mother Goose either.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

No, because jesus was a fictional character.

Do I win a pony?

Why do you think that Jesus was a fictional character rather than the subject of legend (defined as fictional stories based upon a real person). George Washington was a real person but he did not cut down a cherry tree and then proclaim his own truthfulness--"I cannot tell a lie."

A couple possible reasons:

(1)It is a popular misconception that myths and legends have some some basis in fact. Some do,most do not.

(2) There is NO credible evidence for the existence of Jesus. NONE of the evidence presented by apologists meets the standards demanded by modern historians.

The very best that can be said is that an historical Jesus 'probably existed' or 'is likely to have existed'. I accept the latter. However,I'm unable to accept that the New Testament is anything more than the mythology of Christianity.(due to lack of credible evidence)

Zen:terribly sorry,but no pony. To get your pony you will need to present some credible evidence in support of your claim

[Norfolk And Chance]

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'

Why didn't he just say "Dad, Dad, why have you forsaken me?"

[Minimalist]

Why do you think that Jesus was a fictional character rather than the subject of legend (defined as fictional stories based upon a real person).

Do you apply the same standard to Hercules, Zeus, Osiris, Quetzlcoatl, Shiva, Thor, Arvernus, Ahura Mazda, Apollo, Asshur, Chemosh, etc, etc, or is it just a xtian thing?

[Forsaken]

Why do you think that Jesus was a fictional character rather than the subject of legend (defined as fictional stories based upon a real person). George Washington was a real person but he did not cut down a cherry tree and then proclaim his own truthfulness--"I cannot tell a lie."

What makes you think Jesus (god) was NOT a fictional character? Of course, you cannot use another fictional piece of writing to prove that a fictional character within the fictional book was not fictional. That leaves you with only one solution; prove that the fictional piece called bible is not fictional. Or maybe you may wanna go deeper and claim that the fictional book called bible is a word of a fictional character called god and thus cannot be fictional. This will bring you back to the first point, ie, What makes you think Jesus (god) was NOT a fictional character?

Confused?

You should be! Bcoz this is a same vicious circle of shit you theist keep rolling in with no chance of escape into the reality.

[Cyberman]

Mythology, fiction and legend are not necessarily mutually exclusive. George Washington certainly existed, as you say; however, while you can point to events in his life that are popularly believed yet historically fictional, there are many more events in his life that are historically true. Whatever else people think they know of the man, he left his mark on history - he lived, he loved, he made decisions good and bad that impacted on the lives of others. He probably also wrote things down, letters, bills and somesuch that have been preserved for posterity (I'm not familiar enough with the man and his life to feel able to pass comment). The same cannot be said of Jesus (the) Christ. Consider also the legendary characters of King Arthur and Robin Hood.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'

Why didn't he just say "Dad, Dad, why have you forsaken me?"

'Eli' literally means 'high'.It can also mean 'father' (formal)


Jesus is also recorded as addressing God as 'aba' (familiar); 'dad' or 'daddy'

[Zen Badger]

No, because jesus was a fictional character.

Do I win a pony?

Why do you think that Jesus was a fictional character rather than the subject of legend (defined as fictional stories based upon a real person). George Washington was a real person but he did not cut down a cherry tree and then proclaim his own truthfulness--"I cannot tell a lie."

So you have evidence out side of the bible that attests to his existence?

And where's my pony?

[Jackalope]

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'

Why didn't he just say "Dad, Dad, why have you forsaken me?"

@ N&C
Or, under trinitarian doctrine, "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?"

@ OP
"Criterion of embarrassment"? Please. That's first-level thinking. Take it to the second level: What better way to make the gullible believe than to make the story embarrassing to the storyteller?

After all, you appear to have bought it.

Sorry, no. Evidence, please, not half-baked bullshit.

[Minimalist]

I love it when you point out to some fundie shithead that their precious inerrant gospels have different last utterances on the cross for the godboy.

I have seen some amazing mental gymnastics trying to get out of that little fuck up.