Any Evidence For A Historical Jesus?

[Shell B]

Well, that explains it. You used an idiotic source, not Google. Still, you lied. You said you went to Google to check the spelling and that Google returned the incorrect result. That was your lie. I could give a fuck that you spelled it wrong. That you defended the misspelling by outright lying is a little cause for concern. Do I need to go back through the thread and quote your lie and all of your dodgy posts since then? Admit it, you never spellchecked with Google.

[Ace Otana]

I don't know if Yehoshua existed or not, don't care either. Don't think it matters.

[Minimalist]

i DIDN'T SAY IT WAS EVIDENCE OR THAT IT WAS PROVEN. i simply stated that it WAS FOUND. i didn't claim it genuin, i just said it's the only artifact we can possibly attribute to Jesus

I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet.

Found? Are you fucking kidding me? First off, the fact that you would even mention such an obvious fraud tells me that you are just a jerk.

But even without that, idiot xtians have been conned into all sorts of relics of fucking jesus ( there are enough pieces of the "true cross" across Europe to build a house! ). The reason there are no artifacts "of jesus" is that there was no "jesus." That seems simple enough even for you to grasp.

Now, as to your fucking shroud which you insist on mentioning even though it is irrelevant to any serious discussion of anything. It was displayed in Lirey, France in 1390 where it was denounced as a fraud by the Bishop, Pierre d'Arcis. What was displayed was a rather garish painting. For 500 years the image faded as preservation was not a well-understood concept. In 1898 an Italian photographer took a picture of it and in one of the great cases of pareidolia thought he saw a "face" in the image. Its the same phenomenon that has jesus showing up on cheese doodles, skillets, water stains, and dog's assholes. The only difference here is that there are undoubtedly the remains of whatever some unknown French artist painted in the 13th century as opposed to the others which are, simply, idiots being idiots.

[houseofcantor]

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/paul.htm

The person who dreamed up Jesus was Paul of Tarsus. There are no earlier records of his existence. You want it to be true. I understand. It's just not. Sorry.

Good link. Thanks.

My experience is kinda unique - going to Corinth and kicking it with Paul, who is a mouthy little jerk but a true visionary.

Friday night, June 3 of 2010 that was - hard to forget that kind of road trip - and in the fall I did time as a regular churchgoer to reserch the implications. I was actually concerned for 'em, silly me.

But no. Christianity is an entrenched mindset; I would not expect tribulation rock the church should it become verifiable. Yeah, I said that. Sure, John Cantor is insane; that does not exclude the fact that John Cantor is an amateur scientist and "goddidit" is simply not an explanation. I am quite comfortable with the terminology of "kicking it with Paul in Corinth" for several reasons. Firstly, be skeptical. Secondly, it does not offend my morality saying/writing/thinking such; it has been and continues to be a stepping stone to the frontiers of philosophy and science.

Since this is an atheist forum, I'll give ya the perspective from the scientific fringe. Immortality. As if the meme of Horus is now doing time in Phoenix Arizona considering the potential link between superposition, simultaneity, and identity. For myself I'm all "Blue Suns;" seems I can't even make myself fear death for one simple reason - loss. The universe doesn't "lose" things, and I am part of the universe; and the part that does not matter to me is the "I." I'm pretty confident that Identity is limited to the mortal - with good reason as it limits and confines - and when I finally shut my hole, it will be loss of complexity to cause the last moment of apprehension - I am equally confident that my joy of exploration and knowing stuff will skip me over the threshold like a stone.

But I don't have a limiting gospel to preach. I'm an atheist because rational skepticism and science are the stuff of civilization and metaphysics the stuff of the identity. This identity is totally enraptured with another - that dang Gwynnies - which makes love the only message needing to be shared. How you get there is up to you. As for not getting there, that's all you as well. I just cannot help but think haters come back as plant life.

[Minimalist]

going to Corinth and kicking it with Paul

Yes, sometime we should talk about Corinth in the mid first century AD.

[houseofcantor]

going to Corinth and kicking it with Paul

Yes, sometime we should talk about Corinth in the mid first century AD.

I'm not thinking that would be wise at this time.

As an atheist, I express such in confidence of a scientific link between that event and my desire to derive a human variant of the 'Witwiki symbolism.' The method of translation; there is no import otherwise.

[Minimalist]

Corinth was sacked, burned and leveled by the Roman consul, Leucius Memmius in 146 BC for engaging in a rebellion against Rome. It stayed that way for just over a century. Like Carthage, the site was too strategically and commercially valuable to leave vacant and both sites were selected as Roman colonies by Gaius Julius Caesar shortly before his death in 44 BC.

The Roman world was once more plunged into civil war which only ended in 31 BC. We don't know all that much about Corinth in this time. Greece was a primary battleground between Octavian and Antony/Cleopatra. It is doubtful that there could have been a lot of growth.

We do have three facts which need to be weighed against the xtian hogwash which they put forward.

First, in 67 AD, Titus Flavius Vespasianus campaigning against the Jewish rebels in Galilee sent a "gift" of some 6,000 captured slaves to Emperor Nero for use in his planned construction of a canal across the Isthmus. As far as anyone knows, this was the first time any Jews were ever in the area.

Second, when Vespasian became Emperor he found it necessary to "re-found the colony."

http://corinth.sas.upenn.edu/greekhistory.html

Later in the 1st century A.C. a second Roman colony was instituted at Corinth under the Emperor Vespasian, Colonia Iulia Flavia Augusta Corinthiensis.

This suggests that the colony was not exactly thriving.

Third, during the reign of Hadrian ( c 135 AD ) the Greek geographer, Pausanias wrote extensively about Corinth and the various shrines found there without noticing any Jewish or xtian communities.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9cJYpYb...ws&f=false

(It's google.books which can't be copied. The reference to Pausanias lack of xtians and Jews appears in the first paragraph.)

This all suggests that the insertion of "Paul" into Corinth's history happened at a much later time. The diaspora of the Jews dates to 135 and the end of the bar Kochba revolt. It would also, not so coincidentally, allow them to reach Corinth after Pausanias left.

[houseofcantor]

One of the clearest images from the event was a clay figure with ADAM written on the forehead. Therefore, 'Witwiki symbolism.' "Paul in Corinth" references reading II Corinthians at the event's conclusion. Seeing a guy, togate, marble steps - Paul in Corinth. I'll get there eventually.

[chi pan]

Found? Are you fucking kidding me? First off, the fact that you would even mention such an obvious fraud tells me that you are just a jerk.

fraud? ok even the history and discovery channel talked about this. they said the blood stains are most consistant with that of a burrial cloth for someone who was Crucified in the same manner of Jesus. even wikipedia says this

The Shroud of Turin or Turin Shroud (Italian: Sindone di Torino, Sacra Sindone) is a linen cloth bearing the image of a man who appears to have suffered physical trauma in a manner consistent with crucifixion.

so in reality, i gave it no more credit than wikipedia does so what's wrong with what i did?

The reason there are no artifacts "of jesus" is that there was no "jesus."

ok i'm so sick of you saying this. i did research on this presented it and you don't even have the decency to prove me wrong, all you're doing is saying i'm wrong. the most you ever did was bring me to a biased site saying Nazareth never existed and i bring evidence from a non biased site saying otherwise (that it was a very small village) and you just ignore it. if your gonna say i'm wrong next time back it up. i back myself up. and also, you ask for the impossible. if you can even find woodwork that old how could you accredit it to any carpenter? what significant thing did Jesus own? i provided many historical accounts written at the time by credible historians. oh, and most modern historians believe he existed too.

Most critical historians agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jewish Rabbi who was regarded as a teacher and healer in Judaea,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

You used an idiotic source, not Google.

the source i copy pasted from that Google search. it's right at the top word for word the entire quote. look at it again and compare.

I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet.

why would i be banned? have i broken any rules?

DEIST PALADIN EDITED TO FIX QUOTE BOXES

[houseofcantor]

I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet.

why would i be banned? have i broken any rules?

Why are you two fighting? Morality and integrity. Who's winning? Minimalist and Minimalist.

Shroud of Turin? Unacceptable. Historicity of the Christ? Unacceptable. So sayeth my morality and my integrity. Sure as fuck there's a flaw in my logic when I say I kicked with Paul in Corinth; my moral certainty (faith) is not about what I am, but rather what I continue to become. From not-logic arose the naive philosophy of Pauline Israelite; applauded by a Rabbi and a Gnostic, acceptable to Christians and atheists. Progress, in other words.

Get banned? Unlikely; if you keep making progress.