Assisted suicide?

[Welsh cake]

Jokes aside, the fact that assisted suicide and suicide legislation in general has always been criminalised, and even in modern times families of those who killed themselves would face legal penalties shows we humans, as a species, are savage, cruel, deplorable and by corollary don't deserve to live.

We are a barbaric lot for lacking an ounce of compassion of those who take their own lives for whatever the reason and create laws against suicide, invoking them with asinine religious doctrine. The bullshit claim that only God has the right to determine when a person will die. If God is real, fuck God, such a being doesn't know what it means to live a life as a mortal creature without absolute power or knowledge. The existence of deities should not dictate the length and scope of our existences.

We don't care people lack the will to continue, yet were so heartless here in the UK, suicide was called "Felo de se" ("felon of himself") in early English common law. The adult who killed themselves would forfeit all property back to the king. I imagine their families would be evicted. They'd get a shameful burial where a stake would be driven through their heart and be buried at a crossroad. It shows we have no empathy for each other and cannot even afford to each one another dignity in death.

At least when the Suicide Act of 1961 when enforced it decriminalised the act of suicide. Those who failed to take their own lives would no longer be prosecuted for doing so.

However we still need to challenge the woefully inadequate Human Rights Act 1998, that ironically robs us of our right to die. A famous case was of Diane Pretty who suffered from motor neurone disease. Her condition was awful and she only a few weeks to live. Diane was frightened and distressed by the suffering and indignity. She couldn't bear the agony any longer and wanted her husband to assist in ending her life.

She didn't want her husband to be held liable so asked the Director of Public Prosecutions to agree not to prosecute. The bastards refused, stating "Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law".

She later died of natural causes. By trying to protect the sanctity of human life, the UK and European Union policies have diminished it. English common law still stands in that "dying is an inevitable consequence of life".

The fuckers in charge have basically stated the right to life under the Convention of Human Rights necessitates the right to "have nature take its course". How the hell does "the personification of nature" have the final say over the right to die?

The law is fucked up, its lack of clarity is a breach of people's human rights, and in dire need of revision.

[theVOID]

This shouldn't even be a debate - people own their own damn lives, if they want to die it's their decision to make.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I do not know how one could define assisted suicide. For terminally ill patients...Well, maybe it could be an option, if they are so much in pain that they do not want to live any longer, and not that they're going to live for too long anyways..
But well, for people who are able to do so...Like, my grandmother. We knew that she could perhaps live for at most 5 years more, although no one knows how long she might have lived, since she didn't have any terminal illness or whatsoever, but the body just gives up after some point, you know..
My grandmother did not ask for such a thing, since she was a woman of strong will and determination, and loved us dearly too, she would never think of suicide when she wouldn't be dying any time soon either.
As I said, maybe it can be a choice for people who have like very few time to live. Cancer patients and such...
But other than that, no.

---

This shouldn't even be a debate - people own their own damn lives, if they want to die it's their decision to make.

Well, suicide on it's own is an entirely different thing.
Do you think that you are allowed to take your life, when you are the father of three children and husband to a wife?
Do you really own your damn life, or are your children and your wife entitled to it aswell?
You take the descisions, but you do not suffer the consequences, apart from being dead and all...

[theVOID]

Do you think that you are allowed to take your life, when you are the father of three children and husband to a wife?

Allowed? What a presumptive question you ask. The real question is "Does government have the power to actively prevent you from ending your own life because you have 3 children and a wife"

The answer is no.

Do you really own your damn life, or are your children and your wife entitled to it aswell?

No, they aren't.

You take the descisions, but you do not suffer the consequences, apart from being dead and all...

If it's your life it's your own decision, irrespective of who is at a disadvantage without your service.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Allowed? What a presumptive question you ask. The real question is "Does government have the power to actively prevent you from ending your own life because you have 3 children and a wife"

The answer is no.

If you're old and terminally ill, you'll probably check in with your wife and kids aswell. So I don't think that this is a choice you'll be taking on your own.
But if you're like healthy and all, and want to end your life by jumping off somewhere or putting a bullet to your head, I think it'd be even more fitting if the government sentences you to life posthumorously, for ending your life despite the fact you had responsibilities and family connections.
Such selfish people are never remembered with good words.

No, they aren't.

Under various circumstances. And even then, they probably tell their family members and etc. and they'll talk this over.

If it's your life it's your own decision, irrespective of who is at a disadvantage without your service.

This is just bullshit. Let's see, you go and have a family, and these people depend on you, but some day, you suddenly come and kill yourself, leaving a heap of bills for your wife and children to clean up. What did you really archieve? Nothing. I've been hearing more and more of such things on TV news. People killing themselves over credit card debts...
It's their decision alright, but it's not their damn right to do this.

[5thHorseman]

You own your own life Mehmet, no one else does, my partner and kids most definately do not.

'What did you really archieve? Nothing. I've been hearing more and more of such things on TV news. People killing themselves over credit card debts...
It's their decision alright, but it's not their damn right to do this. '

YES. IT. IS.

You are free to do as you wish with regards your own life, a government cannot tell you how to live or how to die, we do not live in Orwells 1984.

'I think it'd be even more fitting if the government sentences you to life posthumorously, for ending your life despite the fact you had responsibilities and family connections.'

This is another one of your more retarded moments, who the fuck are a government to tell you what to do with your life? Who the fuck are you to make judgements on OTHER peoples lives? You can't, so don't. Your attitude seems to be that people should be told what to do and this attitude stinks of sanctimonious BS.

And it's not posthumorously, it's posthumously.

[kılıç_mehmet]

This is another one of your more retarded moments, who the fuck are a government to tell you what to do with your life? Who the fuck are you to make judgements on OTHER peoples lives? You can't, so don't. Your attitude seems to be that people should be told what to do and this attitude stinks of sanctimonious BS.

The government makes such judgements each time you commit a crime against the law.
The courts make such judgements whenever you go to a court to get divorced.
The government makes such judgements when giving your money.
The government has a lot to say about your life.
And that's why they try to save people who are about to commit suicide by reasoning, that's why they try to save them, instead of leaving them out to die.
And I do make judgements on other peoples lives. Constantly, as a matter of fact. I speak of error whenever I see it.
And that kind of suicide speaks of great error and weakness of spirit.

Our main point, euthanasia, can be administered whenever the patient is old with a terminal illness, and great pain. But other than that, who is going to apply for it anyways?

YES. IT. IS.

It certainly is not.

[Napoléon]

I do not know how one could define assisted suicide. For terminally ill patients...Well, maybe it could be an option, if they are so much in pain that they do not want to live any longer, and not that they're going to live for too long anyways..
But well, for people who are able to do so...Like, my grandmother. We knew that she could perhaps live for at most 5 years more, although no one knows how long she might have lived, since she didn't have any terminal illness or whatsoever, but the body just gives up after some point, you know..
My grandmother did not ask for such a thing, since she was a woman of strong will and determination, and loved us dearly too, she would never think of suicide when she wouldn't be dying any time soon either.
As I said, maybe it can be a choice for people who have like very few time to live. Cancer patients and such...
But other than that, no.

So your granny didn't want to die. So what? There are plenty of people out there who may not have the 'will' and who may not want to go on. How is it your right or any body else's to tell them they should.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I do not know how one could define assisted suicide. For terminally ill patients...Well, maybe it could be an option, if they are so much in pain that they do not want to live any longer, and not that they're going to live for too long anyways..
But well, for people who are able to do so...Like, my grandmother. We knew that she could perhaps live for at most 5 years more, although no one knows how long she might have lived, since she didn't have any terminal illness or whatsoever, but the body just gives up after some point, you know..
My grandmother did not ask for such a thing, since she was a woman of strong will and determination, and loved us dearly too, she would never think of suicide when she wouldn't be dying any time soon either.
As I said, maybe it can be a choice for people who have like very few time to live. Cancer patients and such...
But other than that, no.

So your granny didn't want to die. So what? There are plenty of people out there who may not have the 'will' and who may not want to go on. How is it your right or any body else's to tell them they should.

Well, it was different in the case for my grandmother.
She too was quite sick, although not terminally ill, nor in exceptional pain as to make life unbearable for her.
There are some which are in great physical pain, old and very close to crossing the bridge.
They might consider euthanasia, but those who are fit to live, and have no bodily problems at all...I see their suicide as a sign of weakness. I see suicide as a very, very selfish thing to do. Obviously, you won't agree with me, but that's fine.

[theVOID]

If you're old and terminally ill, you'll probably check in with your wife and kids aswell. So I don't think that this is a choice you'll be taking on your own.

In most cases it won't be a choice you make alone, that's true - not only that, but we should encourage people who are suicidal (terminal or otherwise) to seek advice, councilling and not rush to any harsh decisions - that being said, it's a very different thing to say that 'we should encourage people to seek advice/discussion' and 'we're not going to allow people to make this choice'

But if you're like healthy and all, and want to end your life by jumping off somewhere or putting a bullet to your head, I think it'd be even more fitting if the government sentences you to life posthumorously, for ending your life despite the fact you had responsibilities and family connections.

What a fucking tyranny. People are only going to suffer longer before killing themselves in prison.

Also, what use is a man in prison for life to his wife and children? No more valuable than a dead man, but the downside is his family now know he's powerless to end his own life and will have to suffer for potentially decades for it.

Such selfish people are never remembered with good words.

You've never been to a funeral for someone who killed themselves then? Trust me, it's much like any other funeral.

And even if it were the case that no persons who end their own life are remembered with 'good words', so what?

This is just bullshit. Let's see, you go and have a family, and these people depend on you, but some day, you suddenly come and kill yourself, leaving a heap of bills for your wife and children to clean up. What did you really archieve? Nothing.

Actually, you achieved "not living". Yeah it's a harsh fate for the wife and kids, but that in and of it's self does not mean that you do not own your own life just because it disadvantages someone else.

Nobody here is going to argue that it isn't a tragedy for the family, but this should only give us more reason to attempt to persuade people to hold in for as long as they can bear.

You also have to remember that this isn't some casual decision for the people who want to die, in most cases life for them feels so unbearable that they aren't much use to anyone as is. A severely depressed person is very often unable to work and provide an income for their families.

I've been hearing more and more of such things on TV news. People killing themselves over credit card debts...
It's their decision alright, but it's not their damn right to do this.

Now you're making claims about rights but I haven't seen you produce one shred of value theory or moral philosophy to support this - You DO NOT get to decide what people's rights are simply because you fell strongly that they're doing something wrong, and you DO NOT get to decide that people loose their individual sovereignty simply because someone else's life is better because of their existence.

If you want to try and solve this problem the correct way you should give money to suicide support groups and education programs to attempt to persuade them to freely make other decisions because forcing people to make decisions that you want them to make is tyrannical and immoral.