More Ron Bashing

[Jaysyn]

Since the Supreme Court invented a "right'' to abortion in Roe v. Wade, federal judges have repeatedly thwarted efforts by democratically elected officials at the state and local level to protect the unborn."

Can't tell if disingenuous or outright lie. The right to privacy isn't some "invented" right.

Not helping your case here for those on the fence, that's for sure.

[Bgood]

Rev Jerry wrote

You have been duped into the zeit movement, which uses a lie to spread a good goal for humanity.

Oh.. I thought you were talking about Christianity there.


[quote='reverendjeremiah' pid='232752' dateline='1327761473']
[
I am aware of the Zeit movie and how much of a conspiracy theory it is and how easy it is to debunk it. I am also aware of the RBE, which is nothing more than Anarcho-syndicalism (otherwsie known as "techno-anarchy") with a new, more modern name.

What part of the Zeit movie are you refering to as a "conspiracy theory that is easy to debunk? That Christ actually was real instead of never having existed and being an astrological myth? That 9/11 WASN'T an obvious inside job??? That the Fed Reserve is legit??? And has it EVER crossed your mind that these "debunking facts" are actually in themselves just false, feeble attempts to cover up the propaganda and lies our corrupt government wants us to blindly believe? Just like Christian apologetics who try to "prove atheism wrong" by passing some biblical information or "Christain fact" as something that debunks atheism... Please, it seems you do not have the capacity to discern political and media deception from deeper, more controversial truth. 9/ 11 was another false flag operation in a line of many historical others (Gulf of Tonkin Incident-Vietnam, Pearl Harbor- WWII, sinking of Lusitania-WWI) to get us in the current mess in the Middle East for oil and other profitable resources for corporate control. Iran is the next OBVIOUS target on our hitlist. (WWIII in the next decade, perhaps, hope not.)

His "investigations" are nothing of the sort. In fact a popular website created by a supported of RBE has made the same complaints I just did, and he walks you through the movie claim by claim.
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/a...zeitgeist/

I will check out this site altough I have seen most of the Debunking material on Zeit film already and found it to be very trite and inconsequential to the bigger picture. For example, they many times focus on one small trivial detail in a whole laundry list of conspiratorial evidence and say that it is somewhat distorted and too liberally interpreted and so therefore the whole entire theory is wrong. And 90% of the time, the thing they are focusing on is periphrial and mostly inconsequential anyways in the first place! And that's if the debunking evidence is even true in itself! It is usually some lame rhetoric that is spun up to just create furthur confusion and doubt. In other words, it is further propagandizing.
[quote]Know the facts people and quit being so damn pessimistic! Pessimism is a self fulfilling prophecy. Yet so is optimism. If you don't at least believe that fact of consciousness, then you will be a victim of it in the end. Karma is a bitch. [/quote]
I clearly know the facts, and have pointed out that you are pushing conspiracy theories as fact. You have been duped into the zeit movement, which uses a lie to spread a good goal for humanity. I am opposed to such lies. You should be too if you are concerned with facts.

---

Just because people call it a 'conspiracy theory' does not mean that it is not true. Evolution is a theory. Do you not believe in evolution? Keep in mind the BIG picture! If you on one hand say that mega corporations run America but on the other hand say, "NO!", 9/11 could never have been staged for corporate interests and the military-industrial complex, is very contradictory, don't you think? Look at Halliburton, just another coincidence out of a sea of virtually hundreds????? Look at the physics of the collapses, WTC bldg #7, fuck the "official story"! That's a load of shit just like Christianity and the entire Bible is a complete load of shit!

Now you say, no government= no corporitism. Yet how about LESS government= LESS corporitism, would that not be a step in the right direction? This is exactly what Ron Paul wants!

Who cares about abortion, that's gonna stay the same, Civil Rights Act, outdated, don't need it anymore anyway even IF he got rid of it. In general, Americans are not as prejudiced and fearfully rascist as they were in the 1930's. Just fucking hire people according to skills and experience. What rational business owner gives a shit what color they are nowadays? The person most qualified gets the job...simple.
Dept of Education, whatever, it is a government waste that accomplishes nothing anyway. Plus these 3 issues, C.R act, abortion and dept shutdowns are periphery and not as central or pressing as the sad state of the economy or our dysfunctional and very expensive foriegn policy of preventive war mongering. And if not Ron Paul for president then who? Obama? What substantial good has he done for the middle class in the past 4 years? Hmm... I see nada.

[Minimalist]

Your stubbornness is clouding the truth. Your making broad generalizations about people and a party.

Dickheads are dickheads, Poop. That you embrace this particular turd does not make him less of a turd.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Can't tell if disingenuous or outright lie. The right to privacy isn't some "invented" right.

ALL rights are invented,by custom and law, and maintained by custom and rule of law. There are no such things as innate rights of any kind.

If you disagree,perhaps you could name those rights and the external/transcendent moral authority from which they are derived

0000000000000000000000000000000000000.


Was Bgood REALLY advocating that loon Ron Paul for president? (I''ve heard him speak ) I'm aware that people tend to get the government they deserve, but America REALLy does not deserve Ron Paul.



If not him,then who?I don't know or care.(this is just academic to me) The question is just an effort to shift the burden of proof;it's up to Bgood to explain precisely why a nineteenth century laissiz faire capitalist would make such a spiffo prez.

[reverendjeremiah]

bgood... Im an anarchist, but Im am NOt some conspiracy theorist.

Sure, I expect many back door deals, but not by some single "new world order" group. I expect many small and secret closed door agreements by many different grounps of businessmen, lawyers, judges, politicians, etc... all working together to scratch each others backs in their own special little circles, but think about what you are saying...

...you are suggesting that W.BUSH'S cabinet was able to pull of the perfect scam. The same administration that couldnt wait to rat out the CIA agents just for petty political gain...are all in secret cohoots with each other?

No. capitalism doesnt bring large groups of people THAT close together. they would all be worrying about the OTHER guys greed.

As far as the zeit movie, the Jesus part tended to have the most correct. some of the things in the 911 part was true, and the one that was screwed up the most was the Fed. He didnt do his homework well. The money is not given out at interest, nor is it printed out by the fed.

Also, I have made it clear and simple about Paul. He is a RIGHT wing Libertarian. I am a LEFT wing libertarian. I cannot vote for him without changing my entire approach to politics. He would close down the OPPOSITE of what I would want closed down in government right now.

[Tiberius]

Nothing in the zeitgeist movie was accurate.

[reverendjeremiah]

Nothing in the zeitgeist movie was accurate.

Pretty much. What he did get right on the Jesus part was specious at best. Sure, one could claim that Jesus is nothing more than an extension of ancient zodiacal sciences, but i feel it is much more than that. not one group of people invented Jesus. Many different groups doing their own thing. Sure, some astrologers had a touch here and there with him, but Jesus wasnt a rip off of any specific deity either. Sure, he has lots in common with other deities, but not any single deity.

Some of the stuff he showed on the 911 was fact, but he twisted those facts to fit a conspiracy theory.

Basically that is what i mean when he said "he got this or that right". I mean that he did present some facts, butquickly distorted them to fit a conspiracy theory. the 9-11 part of the movie was nothing more than exactly what creationists do.

He found a conclusion - in this case "conspiracy!"

then he went around looking for evidence to back it up. So in that sense that some of the evidence he presented was in fact true, but that does not mean that their sums conclude conspiracy.

I used to be a member of the Zeit movement. Then I looked deeper into the movie and realized there were many problems with the conspiracy theories.

The future that the movement is trying to accomplish is the same kind that I envision. I cannot in good faith support their movement when it is based on deceitful foundations. I support RBE, it is strickingly similar to anarcho-syndicalism, but I will not support a lie for it to become a reality.

[Bgood]

Nothing in the zeitgeist movie was accurate.

Then what is accurate and how do you know for sure about anything? People can debunk and counter debunk any claim. That's what lawyers do all the time in court. The Zeit films are accurate in the sense that Christianity IS complete bullshit. I mean c'mon, can any of us really take the Bible as accurate truth? The whole grand idea of this religion being a plaigerization of various pagan beliefs is almost a no-brainer! As was mentioned Christmas is a pagan holiday that originates from the pagan Saturnalia festival. Christianity is a total shit religion that breeds violence, intolerance, ignorance, guilt, shame, repression and hypocrisy. But this is not a blanket statement for ALL religions of the world. This is particularly true for the Abrahamic religions of Christianity, Judeism, and Islam. In general, Eastern religions may be imperfect, but have physical and emotional benefits when properly practiced and followed. There's a big distinction between Western religion and Eastern.


The whole N.W.O. theory is probably a great generalization or abstraction that shows a concept of how elite powers control business in the world. What about the freemasons? Why are they so secretive and imbedded in Washington D.C.? To just dismiss this fact is absurd. There are countless correlations that still go unexplained. Modern propaganda is highly sophisticated and throws the illusion of ineptitude and fragmentation in Washington when in reality, republicans and democrats are equally corrupt and disingenious. It doesn't matter which party you support, the same fucked up policies are going to be pushed through to consolidate and strenghthen the powers that be, whomever they are labeled as, such as Illuminatti, N.W.O., Jewish corporate bankers and mega rich families like the Rothchilds and Rockefellers, Freemasons, etc.

In Zeitgeist, who gives a shit if every single detail can not be verified with 100% certainty. The main point is that our government is fucked up and Americans need to do something about it if we want to have a better future and do the right thing for all of humanity. IF the U.S. government DID fund and "miracuously" stage the 9/11 attacks through CIA and media and what have you, then don't you think the propaganda to cover it up the truth would be much easier to undertake after the fact? Perhaps these conspiratorial organizations are not as centralized and unified as Youtube portrays them, but there are undeniably at least a few groups of greedy billionaires, like the Bilderburg group, who compete for monetary and military domination, and the results and ramifications of their efforts are still suffered by us, the 99%. For latent revoltionaries to squabble and bicker over petty details in the 911 commision report and the complete validity of every conspiracy theory is EXACTLY what "they" would want!! I think we need to respect the intelligence and cleverness of these 'evil empires' that apparently are doing a wonderful job at keeping us sedated, clueless, conflicted, confused and always highly skeptical.

So Vote Ron Paul, he ain't perfect, but he may be the least of all evils. He is not "one of them"....a corporate puppet. He may have very radical ideas, but that is good, because we need the change that Obama promised in 08 but has not delivered. Paul is adamently against corporatism, which I believe is very important to recognize, whether you label him right wing, left wing, idealist, crazy or whatever. 2012 CAN become a historical year. I'm sure it will. Fight the power! Peace out.

[reverendjeremiah]

Then what is accurate and how do you know for sure about anything? People can debunk and counter debunk any claim.

So if the zeit movie isnt accurate, then how can we tell if ANYTHING is accurate?

Yeah...see....this is why I left the zeit group. They are pretty intense about their conspiracy theories, and they also get pushy about it as well. It basically turned me off, especially once I realized how easy it was to debunk the movie it was pretty much over then.

You spout out all of these conspiracy theorise, then you say "so vote Ron Paul blah blah blah". If I were a Ron Paul supporter on this thread, I would be pissed at what you just posted. Frankly, you sound like many of the Ron Paul supporters I have met with anyways. Of course, not all of them are conspiracy theorists like you, but quite a few are.

So stop telling me to vote for a right winger. As far as I am concerned Ron Paul can chug a gallon of horse piss and fuck off.

[Bgood]

So who will you vote for? Who is the best candidate for president in 2012?

What I am trying to point out is that you seem to have some very legitamite criticisms of the gov and corporations in the U.S but what good is that discontent and concern if it is not focused somewhere that has some unity and possibilty of achieving some of the things you like, such as RBE and social anarchist ideals. I really don't mean to be pushy. Sorry if I did! my bad, I just think these conspiracy theories are so complex and hard to express correctly. What I mean is that I am sure there is some truth in almost every theory but there may also be some misunderstanding or flat out lies as well. It is difficult to discern the fact from fiction when dealing with such 'larger than life' institutions such as the church and government and historical events. Without trying to overgeneralize, How can we really know for sure about anything in the Zeitgeist films to be either fact or fiction when there are two strong opposing sides disputing each other? I mean the whole idea that Christ for example is taken from various pagan gods and has strong astrological elements and influence seems totally plausible and likely to me. What is so unbelievable in that general premise? Christ is fake and it's religion is corrupt. Likewise with 9/11, why is the idea of it being an inside job seem so impossible? I think the whole idea of Al Queida pulling off this attack WITHOUT any inside help seems like the implausible story. What benefit do truthers have in sticking their necks out in saying 9/11 was an inside job? They face so much criticism and abuse from the public, the great majority don't make tons of money or gain fame by contriving some conspiracy theory. I think an 'agnostic' stance may be more appropriate when considering such matters. You say that Zeitgeist lies about nearly everything in the films, so then what is the truth when it comes to 9/11? Exactly what the government's official story is???? That sounds like the most naive and sheepish conclusion to make after considering all the blatant holes in it's story. The government can PAY OFF any scientist, any "expert", any schmuck to say anything they want!!! Or threaten to arrest or kill them if they don't! WHO is going to stop them? They are just like a national mafia, but fuck you harder and do it for 'national defense' and counter-terrorism. Ever hear of the Red Scare in the 1950's where Communism was the greatest threat in the world? Historians now realize that was all bullshit. It was an excuse to build up nuclear arms, invade Korea and Vietnam which were wars NOT meant to be won and ended, but SUSTAINED for political and corporate interests. Same shit is going on in Afghanistan right now, and will be in Iran within a few years, maybe sooner.

I respect your opinions against Ron Paul. I can see how he can be easily misunderstood or seem too radical. I think he supports capitalism, but he says he is against crony capitalism which is the foundation for corruption within corporations and what makes the whole system dysfunctional. As a nation, we have to work with what we got right now, we are a capitalistic system that could at least be tweeked to serve the American public and save the environment.