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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 26, 2012 at 8:08 pm
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2012 at 8:12 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Quote:It is difficult to imagine a valid military reason for the order so I am assuming that there wasn't one.
I'm just guessing : haven't served?
To paraphrase "the army is different country,they do things differently there"
Regardless of what the politicians claim, a serving soldier does NOT have the same rights as a civilian.
THE most demanded quality in a soldier is conformity;individuality is not acceptable. There are sound,pragmatic reasons for that attitude.
PLUS the armed forces tend to the most conservative and hidebound group in any society.PLUS,smart,educated people capable of forming an abstract thought are an endangered species in the army.(think of say John Wayne in"Green Berets" or Sly Stallone as Rambo,and course The Terminator,who is an android)
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 26, 2012 at 8:16 pm
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2012 at 8:18 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
The problem is perhaps not so much with the military, but with the opinions that support them. This particular woman, actually made me feel physically sick.
Women in the Military should expect rape (Fox News)
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 26, 2012 at 8:23 pm
WTF, soldiers don't rape women because they are "in close contact"...Rapists do, because they're fucking rapists.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 26, 2012 at 8:26 pm
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2012 at 8:29 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Quote:The problem is perhaps not so much with the military, but with the opinions that support them
The two cannot be separated. The extreme conservatism and pure fuckwittery are systemic and visceral at every level in the US and Australian Armies at the every least..
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 26, 2012 at 10:37 pm
Quote:Not surprised about Baden-Powell; the guy was a grown man who wore shorts and a woggle who also liked to take small boys into the woods.
He could have been pope with a resume like that.
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 26, 2012 at 10:52 pm
(February 26, 2012 at 10:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Not surprised about Baden-Powell; the guy was a grown man who wore shorts and a woggle who also liked to take small boys into the woods.
He could have been pope with a resume like that.
Ratty doesn't have a woggle as far as I know. I guess you'd need to ask one of his altar boys to be sure. 
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 27, 2012 at 3:17 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2012 at 3:19 am by Violet.)
(February 26, 2012 at 8:16 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote: The problem is perhaps not so much with the military, but with the opinions that support them. This particular woman, actually made me feel physically sick.
Women in the Military should expect rape (Fox News)
If that made you feel physically sick, this video should have you vomiting near the end.
http://www.watchanimeon.com/perfect-blue/
I particularly love how I watched it with a very large group, and the general consensus was 'what did I just watch?'... while I wasn't able to move.
My response to batshit lady: once is an experience that nobody should have to endure. "More than once" means that you understand 'Perfect Blue' wholly.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 28, 2012 at 1:17 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2012 at 1:23 pm by Aardverk.)
(February 26, 2012 at 7:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote: ..... but in the heat of the moment with your superior in front of you (who is completely aware of what triggers you, via standardized training), and all of your conditioning behind you, a soldier is likely to do whatever the fuck he or she is told.
" I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong ... They never called me nigger." – (Muhammad Ali). I see nothing wrong with conscientious objectors and hope I would have had the courage to have stood by my principles in any of the stupid wars in my lifetime. Whilst I do understand your point about a soldier's conditioning and the reasons for it, I feel that 'church parade' is hardly the same thing. It is not a period of danger, high stress and adrenalin where you obey orders blindly. IF, in church parade you were handed a gun and told to shoot the man in front, most people would refuse - I hope. Principles would/should stop you following a ridiculous order. I hope the same applies to an order to someone to pretend to be Christian.
Fortunately I was never conscripted and I'm far too old now. So, what would happen to a soldier who refused to pretend to be Christian?
A sensible man should not demand of me, or hope that when we mention a subject, we shall make a complete exposition of it. - Maimonides
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 28, 2012 at 2:17 pm
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2012 at 2:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Well, just keep in mind that an order like that would never be given in a vacuum. A successful process of indoctrination, and conditioning for as much automatic response as possible is the goal...in other words, a soldier might actually raise their gun on orders just because it's been drilled over and over and over..and then..with the gun raised...have second thoughts. Or maybe not.
Lock and load your seven round magazine and watch, your lanes. The objective is always dehumanized first, it's never a person, but a target, an enemy combatant, an enemy asset, etc etc etc, but never ever do you refer to them as people, because they aren't.
I don't mean to paint a negative picture here, and soldiers are told that they have no obligation to comply with an illegal order, increasingly the army stresses intelligent professional soldiers over dumb joes. But it's a little more complicated than all that.
(ah, also, figured I might want to add that my experience in the army was devoid of conscientious objectors, or time to think an order through in a calm reasoned manner, and my experiences should not be taken as indicative of the army in it's entirety in all cases, I got the triple dose of hooah is all)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Navy atheist required to pray, say “Amen”, and feign hatred of atheists
February 28, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Typically this is done in a situation where the troop would have to publicly disagree with his superior officer, and because he's not being asked to shoot down unarmed villagers, sympathy will likely be in short supply while coincidental reassignment someplace he can't take his family will be easy to come by. Using the generic 'he'.
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