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Some Problems with Quran
#1
Some Problems with Quran
There is over 30 issues I have with Quran. Here is four of them. I will post more later.


Problem 1 - Desire of the life of this World earning hell.

مَنْ كَانَ يُرِيدُ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا نُوَفِّ إِلَيْهِمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ فِيهَا وَهُمْ فِيهَا لَا يُبْخَسُونَ {15}
[Shakir 11:15] Whoever desires this world's life and its finery, We will pay them in full their deeds therein, and they shall not be made to. suffer loss in respect of them.
[Pickthal 11:15] Whoso desireth the life of the world and its pomp, We shall repay them their deeds herein, and therein they will not be wronged.
[Yusufali 11:15] Those who desire the life of the present and its glitter,- to them we shall pay (the price of) their deeds therein,- without diminution.
أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ لَيْسَ لَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ إِلَّا النَّارُ ۖ وَحَبِطَ مَا صَنَعُوا فِيهَا وَبَاطِلٌ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ {16}
[Shakir 11:16] These are they for whom there is nothing but fire in the hereafter, and what they wrought in it shall go for nothing, and vain is what they do.
[Pickthal 11:16] Those are they for whom is naught in the Hereafter save the Fire. (All) that they contrive here is vain and (all) that they are wont to do is fruitless.
[Yusufali 11:16] They are those for whom there is nothing in the Hereafter but the Fire: vain are the designs they frame therein, and of no effect and the deeds that they do

This verse is a very strong verse. Notice how it says they will have nothing but the fire in the next world. This leaves no room for paradise after the fire. So it's not even a temporary punishment. Desire of the life of this world is a very natural feeling. Almost every human desires the life of this world. How can God promise hell for everyone for this natural feeling? Now this a very hard verse to justify. So people might say, what it really means is when your main objective is the life of this world as opposed to the next world or pleasure of God. Now the verse is not stating such a thing. Some people might also incline to say, it means if you only desire the life of this world. But this is not stated either. There is no "only" in the statement. Therefore this verse is very general. Any want of this world results in hell. Some people might say, if you want this world, you go after vain things. This is not necessarily true either. Some people might one a satisfactory life. A poor person might want to be wealthier and live a happy life. It doesn't mean he wants vanities and everything. And even wanting some vanities, why is it such a crime that earns hell? If you look at this verse, it shows a very unmerciful nature of God. Hardly anyone can have no desire of the life of this world. In fact loosing such desire can be unhealthy for people. This verse is a problem itself but it also is in contradiction with other verses in Quran.

Problem 2 - Desire of the life of this world earning hell and believers being promised paradise.


There is many verses that promise believers paradise:

وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الصِّدِّيقُونَ ۖ وَالشُّهَدَاءُ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ وَنُورُهُمْ ۖ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَكَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا أُولَٰئِكَ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ {19}
[Shakir 57:19] And (as for) those who believe in Allah and His messengers, these it is that are the truthful and the faithful ones in the sight of their Lord: they shall have their reward and their light, and (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the inmates of the hell.
[Pickthal 57:19] And those who believe in Allah and His messengers, they are the loyal, and the martyrs are with their Lord; they have their reward and their light; while as for those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are owners of hell-fire.
[Yusufali 57:19] And those who believe in Allah and His messengers- they are the Sincere (lovers of Truth), and the witnesses (who testify), in the eyes of their Lord: They shall have their Reward and their Light. But those who reject Allah and deny Our Signs,- they are the Companions of Hell-Fire.
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا تُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ تَوْبَةً نَصُوحًا عَسَىٰ رَبُّكُمْ أَنْ يُكَفِّرَ عَنْكُمْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ وَيُدْخِلَكُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ يَوْمَ لَا يُخْزِي اللَّهُ النَّبِيَّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَعَهُ ۖ نُورُهُمْ يَسْعَىٰ بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَبِأَيْمَانِهِمْ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا أَتْمِمْ لَنَا نُورَنَا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا ۖ إِنَّكَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ {8}
[Shakir 66:8] O you who believe! turn to Allah a sincere turning; maybe your Lord will remove from you your evil and cause you to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, on the day on which Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him; their light shall run on before them and on their right hands; they shall say: Our Lord! make perfect for us our light, and grant us protection, surely Thou hast power over all things.
[Pickthal 66:8] O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things.
[Yusufali 66:8] O ye who believe! Turn to Allah with sincere repentance: In the hope that your Lord will remove from you your ills and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow,- the Day that Allah will not permit to be humiliated the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their Light will run forward before them and by their right hands, while they say, "Our Lord! Perfect our Light for us, and grant us Forgiveness: for Thou hast power over all things."

مَنْ عَمِلَ صَالِحًا مِنْ ذَكَرٍ أَوْ أُنْثَىٰ وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَلَنُحْيِيَنَّهُ حَيَاةً طَيِّبَةً ۖ وَلَنَجْزِيَنَّهُمْ أَجْرَهُمْ بِأَحْسَنِ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ {97}
[Shakir 16:97] Whoever does good whether male or female and he is a believer, We will most certainly make him live a happy life, and We will most certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did.
[Pickthal 16:97] Whosoever doeth right, whether male or female, and is a believer, him verily we shall quicken with good life, and We shall pay them a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do.
[Yusufali 16:97] Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.

فَالْيَوْمَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنَ الْكُفَّارِ يَضْحَكُونَ {34}
[Shakir 83:34] So today those who believe shall laugh at the unbelievers;
[Pickthal 83:34] This day it is those who believe who have the laugh of disbelievers,
[Yusufali 83:34] But on this Day the Believers will laugh at the Unbelievers:
عَلَى الْأَرَائِكِ يَنْظُرُونَ {35}
[Shakir 83:35] On thrones, they will look.
[Pickthal 83:35] On high couches, gazing.
[Yusufali 83:35] On Thrones (of Dignity) they will command (a sight) (of all things).

Now the question is, is it possible to a believer and desire this world? I think it's very obvious it's not only possible but really the case of almost every believer. This shows there is a contradiction. A person can say a believer would not desire this world, but I don't it's logical to believe so. Most believers obviously have a desire of this world. They read the Quran and are promised paradise. At the same time, they are promised nothing but the fire. This seems to be a clear contradiction.

Problem 3 - Desiring the reward of the next world earns paradise.

وَمَا كَانَ لِنَفْسٍ أَنْ تَمُوتَ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ كِتَابًا مُؤَجَّلًا ۗ وَمَنْ يُرِدْ ثَوَابَ الدُّنْيَا نُؤْتِهِ مِنْهَا وَمَنْ يُرِدْ ثَوَابَ الْآخِرَةِ نُؤْتِهِ مِنْهَا ۚ وَسَنَجْزِي الشَّاكِرِينَ {145}
[Shakir 3:145] And a soul will not die but with the permission of Allah the term is fixed; and whoever desires the reward of this world, I shall give him of it, and whoever desires the reward of the hereafter I shall give him of it, and I will reward the grateful.
[Pickthal 3:145] No soul can ever die except by Allah's leave and at a term appointed. Whoso desireth the reward of the world, We bestow on him thereof; and whoso desireth the reward of the Hereafter, We bestow on him thereof. We shall reward the thankful.
[Yusufali 3:145] Nor can a soul die except by Allah's leave, the term being fixed as by writing. If any do desire a reward in this life, We shall give it to him; and if any do desire a reward in the Hereafter, We shall give it to him. And swiftly shall We reward those that (serve us with) gratitude.

مَنْ كَانَ يُرِيدُ حَرْثَ الْآخِرَةِ نَزِدْ لَهُ فِي حَرْثِهِ ۖ وَمَنْ كَانَ يُرِيدُ حَرْثَ الدُّنْيَا نُؤْتِهِ مِنْهَا وَمَا لَهُ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنْ نَصِيبٍ {20}
[Shakir 42:20] Whoever desires the gain of the hereafter, We will give him more of that gain; and whoever desires the gain of this world, We give him of it, and in the hereafter he has no portion.
[Pickthal 42:20] Whoso desireth the harvest of the Hereafter, We give him increase in its harvest. And whoso desireth the harvest of the world, We give him thereof, and he hath no portion in the Hereafter.
[Yusufali 42:20] To any that desires the tilth of the Hereafter, We give increase in his tilth, and to any that desires the tilth of this world, We grant somewhat thereof, but he has no share or lot in the Hereafter.

According to both these verses, anyone whom wants the tilth/reward of the next world, they will get from it and be increased in it. However if you desire this world you won't get any portion of the next world, rather as we saw earlier, you will get nothing but the fire. An obviously problem is what if you desire both? What if a person wants both the tilth of this world, the life of this world, and the tlth of the next? Again, it's the case that most humans are like this. It cannot be they will have nothing but the fire, and get reward of the next world at the same time.

The other issue is that a person can have done evil or been a disbeliever, and desire the tilth of the next world. According to these verses, they are promised paradise, yet the unjust and disbelievers are promised hell.

In fact, it can be said most humans, even those whom don't believe in the next world, desire the reward of the next world. No one wants to go to hell and no wants to die and become nothing. All wish to be forgiven and rewarded with paradise even if they don't believe in paradise. According to these verses, everyone whom wants the reward of the next world will get it.

Problem 4 - People asking for a proof/sign/miracle and the responses.

The Quran spoke of past Prophets. For example it spoke of Moses. When Moses was asked for a proof/sign of his Prophethood, he made his stick turn into a snake. This was not the only proof, as miracles followed from that. Other Prophets also were said to bring such signs. It was naturally expected as such, for Mohammad to bring such miracles if he was truly a Prophet. Why would previous Prophets bring proofs but not Mohammad. As such, the disbelievers of Mohammad brought this point, and it was noticed by Mohammad, whom mentioned this objection in Quran. Let us look at how he responded to it.

بَلْ قَالُوا أَضْغَاثُ أَحْلَامٍ بَلِ افْتَرَاهُ بَلْ هُوَ شَاعِرٌ فَلْيَأْتِنَا بِآيَةٍ كَمَا أُرْسِلَ الْأَوَّلُونَ {5}
[Shakir 21:5] Nay! say they: Medleys of dreams; nay! he has forged it; nay! he is a poet; so let him bring to us a sign as the former (prophets) were sent (with).
[Pickthal 21:5] Nay, say they, (these are but) muddled dreams; nay, he hath but invented it; nay, he is but a poet. Let him bring us a portent even as those of old (who were Allah's messengers) were sent (with portents).
[Yusufali 21:5] "Nay," they say, "(these are) medleys of dream! - Nay, He forged it! - Nay, He is (but) a poet! Let him then bring us a Sign like the ones that were sent to (Prophets) of old!"
مَا آمَنَتْ قَبْلَهُمْ مِنْ قَرْيَةٍ أَهْلَكْنَاهَا ۖ أَفَهُمْ يُؤْمِنُونَ {6}
[Shakir 21:6] There did not believe before them any town which We destroyed, will they then believe?
[Pickthal 21:6] Not a township believed of those which We destroyed before them (though We sent them portents): would they then believe?
[Yusufali 21:6] (As to those) before them, not one of the populations which We destroyed believed: will these believe?

If we look at this response, it's clearly a red herring. Let us think about it. The people of the towns before it all rejected these Signs, yet God sent them these signs. People in the past rejected these signs, yet God sent these signs to the people that followed. Well without the Signs, what proof would the Prophets have? They brought these signs to prove it. Now a few people accepted per account of Quran while most rejected. So even if these people will not believe, it's poor excuse of not sending a signs. It's a red herring that most people rejected and they would follow suit. The people are saying why isn't their proofs in form of miracles like the Prophets in the past had. So we can see it's a lame red herring which even shows he should have sent signs, because people rejecting in the past didn't stop the Prophets from being sent with signs. In other words he is avoiding the question. They already know that previous Prophets were sent miracles as he claims, and were rejected, they are saying why isn't he sent with one like the past Prophets were per his claims.

وَيَقُولُونَ لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۖ فَقُلْ إِنَّمَا الْغَيْبُ لِلَّهِ فَانْتَظِرُوا إِنِّي مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الْمُنْتَظِرِينَ {20}
[Shakir 10:20] And they say: Why is not a sign sent to him from his Lord? Say: The unseen is only for Allah; therefore wait-- surely I too, with you am of those who wait.
[Pickthal 10:20] And they will say: If only a portent were sent down upon him from his Lord! Then say, (O Muhammad): The Unseen belongeth to Allah. So wait! Lo! I am waiting with you.
[Yusufali 10:20] They say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "The Unseen is only for Allah (to know), then wait ye: I too will wait with you."

This obviously avoiding the question. The only way it seems to be relevant to the question, is that it's part of the Unseen knowledge of God, only God knows this. Also what does "wait" have to do with anything here? Is he stating that he will send a sign. This seems rather ambiguous but we see later it's stated that they would never believe in a Sign just as they didn't believe initially.

وَأَقْسَمُوا بِاللَّهِ جَهْدَ أَيْمَانِهِمْ لَئِنْ جَاءَتْهُمْ آيَةٌ لَيُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهَا ۚ قُلْ إِنَّمَا الْآيَاتُ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ ۖ وَمَا يُشْعِرُكُمْ أَنَّهَا إِذَا جَاءَتْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ {109}
[Shakir 6:109] And they swear by Allah with the strongest of their oaths, that if a sign came to them they would most certainly believe in it. Say: Signs are only with Allah; and what should make you know that when it comes they will not believe?
[Pickthal 6:109] And they swear a solemn oath by Allah that if there come unto them a portent they will believe therein. Say; Portents are with Allah and (so is) that which telleth you that if such came unto them they would not believe.
[Yusufali 6:109] They swear their strongest oaths by Allah, that if a (special) sign came to them, by it they would believe. Say: "Certainly (all) signs are in the power of Allah: but what will make you (Muslims) realise that (even) if (special) signs came, they will not believe."?
وَنُقَلِّبُ أَفْئِدَتَهُمْ وَأَبْصَارَهُمْ كَمَا لَمْ يُؤْمِنُوا بِهِ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ وَنَذَرُهُمْ فِي طُغْيَانِهِمْ يَعْمَهُونَ {110}
[Shakir 6:110] And We will turn their hearts and their sights, even as they did not believe in it the first time, and We will leave them in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.
[Pickthal 6:110] We confound their hearts and their eyes. As they believed not therein at the first, We let them wander blindly on in their contumacy.
[Yusufali 6:110] We (too) shall turn to (confusion) their hearts and their eyes, even as they refused to believe in this in the first instance: We shall leave them in their trespasses, to wander in distraction.
وَلَوْ أَنَّنَا نَزَّلْنَا إِلَيْهِمُ الْمَلَائِكَةَ وَكَلَّمَهُمُ الْمَوْتَىٰ وَحَشَرْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ قُبُلًا مَا كَانُوا لِيُؤْمِنُوا إِلَّا أَنْ يَشَاءَ اللَّهُ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ يَجْهَلُونَ {111}
[Shakir 6:111] And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead had spoken to them and We had brought together all things before them, they would not believe unless Allah pleases, but most of them are ignorant.
[Pickthal 6:111] And though We should send down the angels unto them, and the dead should speak unto them, and We should gather against them all things in array, they would not believe unless Allah so willed. Howbeit, most of them are ignorant.
[Yusufali 6:111] Even if We did send unto them angels, and the dead did speak unto them, and We gathered together all things before their very eyes, they are not the ones to believe, unless it is in Allah's plan. But most of them ignore (the truth).

This is really poor reasoning. Instead of providing the proof that they are demanding, it's just stating to them that the would not believe. What are they suppose to make out of that? That they would not believe no matter what? And how would they believe that but except by believing him. It seem like this objection bothered Mohammad because it was a very good objection towards him. If we think about, miracles are PROOF of Prophets being Prophets. If some people accepted Mohammad, then showing them miracles would increase their faith, it would also cease the excuse of disbelievers. But without miracles, this gives a pretty solid argument and excuse for disbelievers rejecting. Previous Prophets were sent with miracles per Mohammad's claim, yet he isn't sent with any? This is a very good objection. And it's a reasonable one. The thing is these verses are painting them as people that would never accept Mohammad but turns out most disbelievers ended up becoming Muslim after the victory of Muslims. In fact, I will get into that with the verses that paint disbelievers as hopeless and that they would never believe.

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۗ إِنَّمَا أَنْتَ مُنْذِرٌ ۖ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ {7}
[Shakir 13:7] And those who disbelieve say: Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people.
[Pickthal 13:7] Those who disbelieve say: If only some portent were sent down upon him from his Lord! Thou art a warner only, and for every folk a guide.
[Yusufali 13:7] And the Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.

This again a red herring. He doesn't need to be more of a warner to send miracles, just as Prophets before him weren't more then Warners but were sent with miracles. Again, avoiding the question totally because he has no good response.

وَمَا مَنَعَنَا أَنْ نُرْسِلَ بِالْآيَاتِ إِلَّا أَنْ كَذَّبَ بِهَا الْأَوَّلُونَ ۚ وَآتَيْنَا ثَمُودَ النَّاقَةَ مُبْصِرَةً فَظَلَمُوا بِهَا ۚ وَمَا نُرْسِلُ بِالْآيَاتِ إِلَّا تَخْوِيفًا {59}
[Shakir 17:59] And nothing could have hindered Us that We should send signs except that the ancients rejected them; and We gave to Samood the she-camel-- a manifest sign-- but on her account they did injustice, and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear.
[Pickthal 17:59] Naught hindereth Us from sending portents save that the folk of old denied them. And We gave Thamud the she-camel - a clear portent save to warn.
[Yusufali 17:59] And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).

Finally there is an answer to the objection. But is it a good answer? Is it a reason at all? People in the past rejected Signs, but that didn't prevent God from sending signs to other people after those people rejected. So why is it different in this case?

Notice it didn't state because God didn't want to punish them, or didn't state it's because they would reject, but really can there be any good reasons not to send miracles when he sent them in the past?

Out of all excuses to make, this one is a very bad one. People have free-will, and can always choose to believe what they know as true or reject it. Some people say the rejection of miracles of past people somehow caused them to become ineffective in people of Mohammad. But this is rather impossible. At most it can be a factor. The very fact they have free-will and can choose how to be, whether to accept miracles and proofs, or not, shows that such a notion is not possible.
Would people in the past rejecting miracles make the proofs of miracles less manifest? Would it be less of a proof? No ofcourse not. And there being some people whom believed in Mohammad, how can it be stated they would not caused anyone to believe. Even if disbelievers would reject them, believers would still benefit by them and it would increase their faith. So this is not a reason at all. There is no way however that people rejecting in the past in itself could cause them to become ineffective. At most it can be argued it's a factor to that with many other reasons and factors. But even that's weak, because miracles are always proof. If they by their nature can be not be effective due to a mindset of a people, then they would not be proof. It is always irrational to reject it, and it's always manifest that they prove the case of Prophets. That's why they are proofs. That's why people have no excuse of rejecting them. And people always have a choice to be whom they are, to be rational or irrational, so what people did in the past cannot be stated to be the reason they are for whom they are. Of course it was reason of being "ineffective" it should stated that instead of stating it's due to people rejecting in the past, by which those hearing it would not knowing it meant that caused it to be come ineffective. In fact, if he did state that, the disbelievers would have reasons to object to this and explain how it caused it to become ineffective, which would be such a lame excuse and have no justification.

At the end, we see nothing but a lame excuse to why he didn't send miracles. What it makes more worse, is that this reason didn't prevent a future miracle per Quran.

اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانْشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ {1}
[Shakir 54:1] The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.
[Pickthal 54:1] The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.
[Yusufali 54:1] The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.
وَإِنْ يَرَوْا آيَةً يُعْرِضُوا وَيَقُولُوا سِحْرٌ مُسْتَمِرٌّ {2}
[Shakir 54:2] And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic.
[Pickthal 54:2] And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion.
[Yusufali 54:2] But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic."

So if God didn't send signs because people in the past rejected them, then why did he sent this one later? Things are obviously not adding up.

And the end, these very people ended up believing in Islam. This makes it even worse. Something God could have done if Mohammad was his Messenger, was provide these miracles, and then argue why they should accept these miracles and showing reasoning why it's unreasonable to call it magic. This would look a whole lot better for future readers then making up excuses as to why he would not send miracles. This specially since all people in the past were sent miracles, so what was so different about the Arabs for all these other people that they could not be sent miracles? No reason provided except that people in the past rejected Signs. What kind of reason is that. Of course no reason at all. How this would look for future readers would also be something you expect of a Wise Creator to take account into. Even if those people would have rejected, at least the Quran would have said they were sent miracles and signs, continuously, and be reasoning against them telling them they are being unreasonable denying these signs and asking them what other proof would they accept if they reject this and what would make them believe, if they disbelieve in miracles. But instead it was a lame excuse, and red herrings. What are future unbiased readers suppose to make out of this? How does it look?
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#2
RE: Somes Problems with Quran
[Image: thumbnail.aspx?q=1619183207805&id=14...8943c052ec]
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#3
RE: Some Problems with Quran
(March 1, 2012 at 12:44 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: This verse is a very strong verse. Notice how it says they will have nothing but the fire in the next world. This leaves no room for paradise after the fire. So it's not even a temporary punishment. Desire of the life of this world is a very natural feeling. Almost every human desires the life of this world. How can God promise hell for everyone for this natural feeling? Now this a very hard verse to justify. So people might say, what it really means is when your main objective is the life of this world as opposed to the next world or pleasure of God.

Hardly surprising.

Every religion in the world asks that you sacrifice the "real and now" for the "imaginary and later". They convince you to make your life on earth miserable while giving the illusion of a better life afterwards. It doesn't matter the "after"- life is supposed to be heaven or reincarnation or nirvana - what matters to them is that you suffer here and now.

The life we have now and our desire for it are what is real and known. That is what we should hold as a primary and as a standard for judging our actions. Religion, which by its definition regards earthly and known life as insignificant, is anti-life. If philosophy is supposed to tell us how to live our lives, religion tells us how to die throughout it.



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#4
RE: Some Problems with Quran
Those aren't problems with the Quran, people are free to write whatever they wish into their fantasy fiction. The problem with the Quran is identical to the problem with any other statement of faith, a complete and utter lack of evidence.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#5
RE: Some Problems with Quran
(March 2, 2012 at 6:58 am)genkaus Wrote: Hardly surprising.

Every religion in the world asks that you sacrifice the "real and now" for the "imaginary and later". They convince you to make your life on earth miserable while giving the illusion of a better life afterwards. It doesn't matter the "after"- life is supposed to be heaven or reincarnation or nirvana - what matters to them is that you suffer here and now.

Funny also how the leaders of those religions always seem to live a life of luxury while telling their followers to make those sacrifices.
Thinking
[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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#6
RE: Some Problems with Quran
Someone has to store all those things that others must forego to save their immortal souls. They're just doing the faithful a favor. Ungrateful bastards. Angel
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#7
RE: Some Problems with Quran
Having spent most of my life learning about the Christian faith, I often find myself in waters I'm too scared to tread when faced with questions from someone of any other Faith. I refuse to step into any argument without as much knowledge as I can possibly have has been gained on both my perspective, and the perspective of the person whom, as is generally the case, attempting to convert me,. Thanks for the extra knowledge Big Grin
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#8
RE: Some Problems with Quran
Rayan, any comments?
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#9
RE: Some Problems with Quran
Quote:There is over 30 issues I have with Quran. Here is four of them. I will post more later.

Oh please don't bother.

Are you perhaps mistaking a bunch of atheists for people who (a) give a fuck? or (b) people who give credibility to ANY book of 'revealed truth'? Or are you simply trying to impress everyone with your brilliance?
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#10
RE: Some Problems with Quran
(June 3, 2012 at 7:27 pm)padraic Wrote:
Quote:There is over 30 issues I have with Quran. Here is four of them. I will post more later.

Oh please don't bother.

Are you perhaps mistaking a bunch of atheists for people who (a) give a fuck? or (b) people who give credibility to ANY book of 'revealed truth'? Or are you simply trying to impress everyone with your brilliance?

Well I originally wrote 28 issues and posted in on Muslim forums as well as other religious forums and wanted feed back. I've found more issues then those 28 since. I originally wrote it though to show it to my family instead of debating them and letting them know why I left Islam.

I thought people might be interested to know problems I've found with Quran, but I decided not to post anymore here because I realized people don't have interest.
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