One less scumbag in the world

[5thHorseman]

Nation of retards with 5000 nukes. Great.

(You guys are cool though )

[kılıç_mehmet]

On the other end of the spectrum, we have those who view Hitler as evil incarnate, single-handedly masterminding the events of WW2 and the Holocaust. A monster, that no human being would support......

He was certainly a very troubled man.
But I think his greatest weakness was his hotheadedness. He was not able to keep his cool under certain situations.
I think that he and Himmler should have switched places.

[5thHorseman]

I think he should've listened to his Generals and not invaded Russia. He overuled his Generals on tactical decisions. Hitler rose to the almighty rank of Lance-Corporal. How different would it have been if he listened and wasn't hotheaded?

Godwin's Law - wins.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I think he should've listened to his Generals and not invaded Russia. He overuled his Generals on tactical decisions. Hitler rose to the almighty rank of Lance-Corporal. How different would it have been if he listened and wasn't hotheaded?

Godwin's Law - wins.

Well, the invasion of Russia did spell his doom. Too many fronts. Not even the German war machine can withstand that. Poor poor Germany. In a time where their national pride was the highest, they were laid low. If only Hitler laid low before he thought of testing the patience of the other world powers..
Okay, Anschluss, Großer Reich und Kultur, aber one must also think that things have their consequences.

[DeistPaladin]

The American society for sure. According to most Americans hitler was an ultra left wing socialist / liberal atheist who only gassed Jews and evangelical protestant christians in order to wipe out christianity, capitalism, and freedom in the name of liberalism, atheism, and Charles Darwin.

Yeah...we got some not so bright ones over here.

I take issue with "most". It was Glenn Beck who seemed to start that meme. At least, I hadn't heard it before he started spouting his tin foil hat nonsense.

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I think he should've listened to his Generals and not invaded Russia. He overuled his Generals on tactical decisions. Hitler rose to the almighty rank of Lance-Corporal. How different would it have been if he listened and wasn't hotheaded?

Godwin's Law - wins.

I'd have called off the whole war and never persecuted any minority (but well, duh, so would anyone). I think Germany could have used peaceful means to redress some of their grievances with Versailles. Pitting Communist Russia against the red-scared West could have yielded enough bargaining chips that Britain and France might have been willing to renegotiate a few key points.

I've heard some speculate that might have been Chamberlain's real motivation (a bull-work against Communism) and he just didn't see the Soviet-Nazi non-aggression pact coming. It was only after the pact was made and Poland was invaded that he went to war too late. I'm not defending Chamberlain but it would have been interesting to discover if this were the case. Kind of a Frankenstein's monster tragedy.

While discussing what ifs, here's one I'd like to ask. When I read the history, it seems to me the downfall of the German Empire (pre-WWI) was when they listened to Tripitz and started building a fleet to try to rival Britain. This seemed to me a stupid move, politically, since relations with France were pretty much screwed by the conflict over Alsalce-Lorraine and relations with Russia were bound to be chilly over the Balkan situation. Why did they want to honk off the British too? It seems to me the Kaiser could have played Britain and France against each other over their colonial rivalry, avoid building any navy and tried to build good relations with Britain. This might have avoided WWI completely.

I'd run this what-if past a friend of mine who had closely studied British history. He didn't think it was likely Britain would be keen on a close friendship with Germany at that point. Britain had always been careful about the balance of power on the mainland of Europe, probably remembering what happened the last time an Empire gained hegemony on that continent. They sided with the disunited Germans against the French to keep France from growing past the Rhine. It was only natural to switch sides once Germany united.

Sorry, topic drift...

[Anomalocaris]

While discussing what ifs, here's one I'd like to ask. When I read the history, it seems to me the downfall of the German Empire (pre-WWI) was when they listened to Tripitz and started building a fleet to try to rival Britain. This seemed to me a stupid move, politically, since relations with France were pretty much screwed by the conflict over Alsalce-Lorraine and relations with Russia were bound to be chilly over the Balkan situation. Why did they want to honk off the British too? It seems to me the Kaiser could have played Britain and France against each other over their colonial rivalry, avoid building any navy and tried to build good relations with Britain. This might have avoided WWI completely.

I think you have it the other way around. The German fleet didn't drive Britain and France closer. Germany was demographically and economically much stronger than France, and British was always going to side with the French in any war in the interest of preventing a victorious Germany from marshalling the resources of a whole continent against Britain at a later date. The German fleet was an attempt to make any such British interference very costly, and prevent any British blockade of German occupied ports from becoming 100% effective.

The downfall of Germany really started when Kaiser Wilhelm II arrogantly refused to renew the reinsurance treaty with Russia in 1890. The reinsurance treaty had been Bismarck's ploy to keep Germany on good terms with Russia and thus keep France isolated on the continent. It was to the best interest of both Germany and Russia. Russia was eager to renew it, the Kaiser was advised to renew it, but declined to do so out of sheer arrogance and delusion.

He had thought that British antipathy towards Russia was such that it would transfer to Germany should Germany ally with Russia. So ironically the idiotic Kaiser thought breaking with Russia would improve relationship with Britain. So he turned down the Russians.

As it turned out, the British regarded this as indication of the Kaiser's arrogance and boundless ambition. The Russians promptly went to the French, allied with the French, and within 15 years, the Russians were also allied with the British.

It is now the Germans who were isolated. The rest is the Von Schliffen Plan, the Miracle at Marne, the Ludendorff offensive, and the treaty of Versaille.

[Autumnlicious]

I think he should've listened to his Generals and not invaded Russia. He overuled his Generals on tactical decisions. Hitler rose to the almighty rank of Lance-Corporal. How different would it have been if he listened and wasn't hotheaded?

Godwin's Law - wins.

Well, the invasion of Russia did spell his doom. Too many fronts. Not even the German war machine can withstand that. Poor poor Germany. In a time where their national pride was the highest, they were laid low. If only Hitler laid low before he thought of testing the patience of the other world powers..
Okay, Anschluss, Großer Reich und Kultur, aber one must also think that things have their consequences.

As one of the grandsons of a man who ardently believed in the Good German, I have to say you're monstrously full of shit. The Good German (what you idiot nationalists rally around as your "Good" example of your stupid ethnicity) was co-opted by foolish nationalistic pride.

Good Germans sold out their neighbors. Good Germans walked into work at the Death Camps, incinerated people who may have been members of their German community, and went home afterwards. Good Germans allowed the obviously German White Rose members to be tortured and executed.

Good Germans allowed their family members to be executed via Action T-4 because they were not "fit".

Would good Turks execute Grandpa or have him sent off to be murdered because he's too old?

The Good German did.

And my grandfather in the US Army, when he saw what the Good German was capable of, was heartbroken.

Because he had realized the Good German had been consumed with pride and hatred, so much so it was consuming it's own people.

And nothing is more damaging to a Good German than destroying their community, their sense of self.

So take your nationalist shit and stuff it up your arse, cause you don't know shit.