Dilemma for theists!

[downbeatplumb]

If jesus has paid for all our sins is there still a hell, if so, then in what way has he paid for our sins?

[jess_essential]

I'm an Atheist through and through, and as Marilyn would say, "Would you want to be in a place full of assholes?". I sure wouldn't.

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I would save someone for the sake of saving someone's life, the concept of heaven has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[C Rod]

Or accept that its magic, that Jesus is with God and like you said he sacrificed something more than a creature maybe it was his will.

The wages for sin are death. So we die, justly. But death is not forgiveness nor atonement, Jesus is.

You would have people spend time in hell, and then allow them to come be with you in heaven. Seems wrong.
What would no sin be like?

Jesus was sinless, no one can compare to him because no one else is sinless. Anything that happened to him will transcend everyone combined because he deserved no pain, suffering, or discomfort, none. Special pleading.

Nice statement Rhythm, its both humble and prideful. I have to wonder if that being true for your belief, how God would truly judge you.

[The Grand Nudger]

Explain, in detail please, how sin is the cause of the biological event known as death.

I would like to imagine that a just and moral god would be proud of the just and moral way I handle my own shortcomings. Proud both in that I came to it on my own without any "revelation", and proud that it had somehow provided the spark in the series of events that led to my existence. Trouble is, I've never heard of a just god, so I imagine the situation would be a little more dire. Hell awaits, and all because I refuse to make someone my patsy. This is what you would have me believe about a god, isn't it?

[C Rod]

He offers forgiveness, the thing about forgiveness is if you don't think you have done anything wrong, why should you be forgiven?

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I admit thats hard one, cant be done biologically, maybe spiritually, yea spiritually.

[genkaus]

The wages for sin are death. So we die, justly. But death is not forgiveness nor atonement, Jesus is.

It seems you don't understand your own words. If the wages for sin is death, then death is the atonement and after death no forgiveness is required. You understand what "wage" means, right? It means that upon dying, you have paid for your sins. Once you have done so, withholding forgiveness on basis of absence of any ass-kissing would not only be unjust, it'd be evil and a sure sign of hatred. That's your god, evil and full of hate.

You would have people spend time in hell, and then allow them to come be with you in heaven. Seems wrong.

Why? That seems much more rational, just and frankly smarter that what your god did.

What would no sin be like?

Contrary to your theology, like every child in the world.

Jesus was sinless, no one can compare to him because no one else is sinless. Anything that happened to him will transcend everyone combined because he deserved no pain, suffering, or discomfort, none. Special pleading.

Good. So you can identify your own logical fallacies. You are correct - the argument you have made here is a logical fallacy called special pleading.

[Jackalope]

Or accept that its magic, that Jesus is with God and like you said he sacrificed something more than a creature maybe it was his will.

The wages for sin are death. So we die, justly. But death is not forgiveness nor atonement, Jesus is.

You would have people spend time in hell, and then allow them to come be with you in heaven. Seems wrong.
What would no sin be like?

Jesus was sinless, no one can compare to him because no one else is sinless. Anything that happened to him will transcend everyone combined because he deserved no pain, suffering, or discomfort, none. Special pleading.

Nice statement Rhythm, its both humble and prideful. I have to wonder if that being true for your belief, how God would truly judge you.

I have to wonder what sort of drugs you've been taking.

[C Rod]

Jesus opened up heaven. That is what he was to do. Isaiah 53. Without his forgiveness we would have to stay in death with our sin but he took all our sin so...

Its stupid, why would you want anyone to suffer, let alone the ones that don't want to?

I wouldn't say there sinless, i would say their ignorant and innocent. But like so much we can do and imagine and dream as adults, they can not. Jesus says we should be both.

I guess that's why Jesus is so special.

[genkaus]

Jesus opened up heaven. That is what he was to do. Isaiah 53. Without his forgiveness we would have to stay in death with our sin but he took all our sin so...

Its stupid, why would you want anyone to suffer, let alone the ones that don't want to?

I wouldn't say there sinless, i would say their ignorant and innocent. But like so much we can do and imagine and dream as adults, they can not. Jesus says we should be both.

I guess that's why Jesus is so special.

Typically brainwashed view - as expected from a fundie. Sorry, but some of us actually use our brains and not drink the Kool-Aid.

Its your god who wants us to suffer. He is the one who said we are sinful and don't deserve heaven, inspite of the fact that he set the rules. And then, he didn't have the balls to stay consistent with his own rules and tried to create a loophole by pretending to die for our sins and going to hell. But then, he couldn't take the heat - chickening out in three days and making up a new rule that that was enough payment - in blatant disregard for any logic or rationality. Then, instead of actually staying true to his promise of being a loving god, he attached a condition at the end of his so-called "selfless" sacrifice - demanding unquestioning obedience and mindless worship expected from a zombie. That is the true and corrupt nature of your god and your Jesus. By my standards, both of them are sinful and should burn in hell for eternity.

[Minimalist]

Jesus was sinless, no one can compare to him because no one else is sinless.

It's your fairy tale....you can make your boy do whatever the fuck you want him to do.

Personally, I prefer Superman and his faster-than-a-speeding-bullet routine.