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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am
FallentoReason Wrote:Maybe it's my engineering discipline here, but you can't logically assume you're being guided by God if the middle-man, Jesus, never existed. You want the NT to be the link to God and vice versa but without Jesus the NT doesn't have a foothold on reality at all. There's a huge hole that the hearsay of the gospels try to fill in. It's like trying to cross a bridge that has a massive gap in the middle. You can't get from one side to the other. The NT and the idea of God just aren't connected in any way, shape or form.
Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 4:38 am
(March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am)Godschild Wrote: Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.
And lest someone forget, being sacrificed for the sin of mankind is no easy feat.
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 4:42 am
(March 28, 2012 at 4:38 am)Christian Wrote: (March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am)Godschild Wrote: Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.
And lest someone forget, being sacrificed for the sin of mankind is no easy feat.
Ofcourse, it is. You just have to die. Dying is not difficult - anyone can do it. In fact, everyone does do it.
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 5:05 am
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2012 at 5:05 am by Sciwoman.)
How is it a sacrifice if you get back everything you gave up - and knew that was the way it was going to happen before you gave anything up?
Religion is not the answer-it is the problem. Everything considered, we would be better off without it.~Baubles of Blasphemy~Edwin F. Kagin
"Much better to have the ability to think critically, than the ability to quote scripture. One says you have a functioning mind. The other says you're a parrot." -- The Secular Buddhist
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 5:09 am
(March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am)Godschild Wrote: FallentoReason Wrote:Maybe it's my engineering discipline here, but you can't logically assume you're being guided by God if the middle-man, Jesus, never existed. You want the NT to be the link to God and vice versa but without Jesus the NT doesn't have a foothold on reality at all. There's a huge hole that the hearsay of the gospels try to fill in. It's like trying to cross a bridge that has a massive gap in the middle. You can't get from one side to the other. The NT and the idea of God just aren't connected in any way, shape or form.
Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.
Yes it all works so beautifully. Now the only way to convert those stubborn ones is to show them the secular proof that scripture is historically accurate. The question is, do you have the courage to find out the truths about the scriptures you read almost daily?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 10:11 am
(March 28, 2012 at 2:24 am)Godschild Wrote: (March 27, 2012 at 8:45 pm)Cinjin Wrote: I just read 8 pages of some serious apologists bull shit. Yuck! (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth) [/exaggeration]
Just let the sheep believe what they want. They're never going to see it people. They don't want to. They can't.
I see just fine, I see just fine because I choose to, I see just fine because I trust God to show me the way.
People who "SEE just fine" don't need anyone to SHOW them the way. Point made. Game. Set. Match.
Godschild Wrote:Mohammad never visited God, Mohammad forgot the teachings of the Torah, no man can look upon God and live, God even told Moses this, Mohammad has many flaws in his teachings, Mohammad was just another want-a-be.
Being that you are by no means any kind of an expert on anything Islam, I would love to get Rayaan to weigh in on this comment.
There are many Muslims who would happily kill you over this comment. You've just committed heresy and blasphemy and they now have the right to stone you.
What makes this even more amusing is how quickly you will call all of us non-believers blasphemers when we mock your silly god, but you'll go ahead and do it yourself on a whim.
Do you get my original point yet? You do NOT see. You cannot see. You won't see. You don't want to and no matter how much truth we put directly in front of you, you will not see it because someone else (by your own admission) shows you "the way".
I'm sorry, but if this image had a blindfold, it would be you.
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 11:26 am
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2012 at 11:27 am by Ace Otana.)
(March 28, 2012 at 4:38 am)Christian Wrote: And lest someone forget, being sacrificed for the sin of mankind is no easy feat.
Define 'sacrifice'.
Not really what I'd call a sacrifice. He didn't lose anything. He dies, comes back and....he's lost what? What did he have before his death and what did he have after? If he gains immortality from his death then it's not really a sacrifice now is it?
I mean if I died for something on earth only to become immortal and return, then what did I sacrifice?
Also if I'm all powerful and immortal then I'm unable to lose anything. Unless of course I use my power and send myself into oblivion.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 1:03 pm
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2012 at 1:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Being scapegoated by men is actually an incredibly easy "feat" to accomplish, I'm not sure why you think otherwise.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 2:35 pm
(March 27, 2012 at 3:28 am)FallentoReason Wrote: fr0d0 Wrote:We've looked into that many moons ago. If you look at it thoroughly you'll see they did actually have a spiritual/ religious facet just like every other group of people. Not saying it's impossible, just never demonstrated. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons why that missionary person was deconverted was because of the fact that they wanted nothing to do with some divine being. Did you watch that video?
And why would they? They had their own spiritual heritage, and just like every other fantastic & unique thing: civilization wiped it out.
The point is that the video claims no spiritual heritage, which is plainly wrong. He got converted away from his mass produced belief system. 1-0 to the good guys.
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RE: Freewill
March 28, 2012 at 5:26 pm
(March 28, 2012 at 4:38 am)Christian Wrote: (March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am)Godschild Wrote: Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.
And lest someone forget, being sacrificed for the sin of mankind is no easy feat.
I can't get my head around why god would sacrifice himself to himself to rectify the sin of mankind, when he could just change the rules on sin or forgive everyone. Or maybe forgive some and punish the others depending on sin severity.
Why sacrifice a life at all?
Why did all old god cults involve killing something to please whatever god? It's all shite. All of it.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
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