Freewill

[FallentoReason]

The point is that the video claims no spiritual heritage, which is plainly wrong. He got converted away from his mass produced belief system. 1-0 to the good guys.

The missionary? No True Scottsman fallacy.

[fr0d0]

I'm not questioning his faith. That's irrelevant. Anyone is at liberty to change their mind. What I'm trashing is the false claim that the video makes about the absence of spiritual endeavour.

[Godscreated]

Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.

And lest someone forget, being sacrificed for the sin of mankind is no easy feat.

Ofcourse, it is. You just have to die. Dying is not difficult - anyone can do it. In fact, everyone does do it.

How is everyone sacrificed, Christ gave His life willingly even for those who refuse to believe, would you, I want to see you pull of the second part. RAISE FROM THE DEAD.

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Maybe it's my engineering discipline here, but you can't logically assume you're being guided by God if the middle-man, Jesus, never existed. You want the NT to be the link to God and vice versa but without Jesus the NT doesn't have a foothold on reality at all. There's a huge hole that the hearsay of the gospels try to fill in. It's like trying to cross a bridge that has a massive gap in the middle. You can't get from one side to the other. The NT and the idea of God just aren't connected in any way, shape or form.

Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.

Yes it all works so beautifully. Now the only way to convert those stubborn ones is to show them the secular proof that scripture is historically accurate. The question is, do you have the courage to find out the truths about the scriptures you read almost daily?

I seek the truth within them so that I can better understand why Christ found us worth dying for. I seek the truth of God's love, I do not use the Bible for a history book because it was never intended for that purpose, the scriptures are about God's redemption of humanity and the love He has for His Messiah. It is my opinion that it doesn't take courage to seek out scriptural truth, a humble heart opens up much.

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I just read 8 pages of some serious apologists bull shit. Yuck! (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth) [/exaggeration]


Just let the sheep believe what they want. They're never going to see it people. They don't want to. They can't.

I see just fine, I see just fine because I choose to, I see just fine because I trust God to show me the way.

People who "SEE just fine" don't need anyone to SHOW them the way. Point made. Game. Set. Match.

Mohammad never visited God, Mohammad forgot the teachings of the Torah, no man can look upon God and live, God even told Moses this, Mohammad has many flaws in his teachings, Mohammad was just another want-a-be.

Being that you are by no means any kind of an expert on anything Islam, I would love to get Rayaan to weigh in on this comment.
There are many Muslims who would happily kill you over this comment. You've just committed heresy and blasphemy and they now have the right to stone you.
What makes this even more amusing is how quickly you will call all of us non-believers blasphemers when we mock your silly god, but you'll go ahead and do it yourself on a whim.

Do you get my original point yet? You do NOT see. You cannot see. You won't see. You don't want to and no matter how much truth we put directly in front of you, you will not see it because someone else (by your own admission) shows you "the way".

I'm sorry, but if this image had a blindfold, it would be you.

I am glad that Christ is my shepherd, I trust his guidance. I do not trust you nor what you seem to believe is truth. God being creator of all things is the only One who can possibly hold all truth. This I see as clear as day.
As for Muslims I speak of what I see as the truth the same as Rayaan does about christianity, I have no hard fillings toward Rayaan and what he thinks of christianity.

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Jesus going to the cross is the bridge that fills that gap. The OT is a witness to the NT and the message it brings, the disciples used the OT to show the truth of Christ to those they witnessed to and taught. Jesus himself referred to the OT on many occasions.

And lest someone forget, being sacrificed for the sin of mankind is no easy feat.

I can't get my head around why god would sacrifice himself to himself to rectify the sin of mankind, when he could just change the rules on sin or forgive everyone. Or maybe forgive some and punish the others depending on sin severity.

Why sacrifice a life at all?

Why did all old god cults involve killing something to please whatever god? It's all shite. All of it.

God did not sacrifice to himself, only man can sacrifice something to God. God sacrificed his Messiah for man to save man from the sin man so loves. There is a big difference in your little picture compared to the big picture that only God can see.

[genkaus]

How is everyone sacrificed, Christ gave His life willingly even for those who refuse to believe, would you, I want to see you pull of the second part. RAISE FROM THE DEAD.

If I wanted to it'd be very easy to give up my life willingly.
And how is being raised from the dead a part of sacrifice. In a sacrifice, you give up something. You don't get it back and continue to call it a sacrifice.

[Sciwoman]

How is it a sacrifice if you get back everything you gave up - and knew that was the way it was going to happen before you gave anything up?

Still waiting for an answer to this.

[FallentoReason]

I seek the truth within them so that I can better understand why Christ found us worth dying for. I seek the truth of God's love, I do not use the Bible for a history book because it was never intended for that purpose, the scriptures are about God's redemption of humanity and the love He has for His Messiah. It is my opinion that it doesn't take courage to seek out scriptural truth, a humble heart opens up much.

Christianity is a purely historical religion you realise. The reason why I would dismiss Mohammad as a liar is because he had isolated 'encounters with god'. That's of no use if you want to prove something. The NT on the other hand is written by so called witnesses (except paul). You even have Jesus performing miracles in public where people could later on testify about what they saw.

I used to believe in the NT like I believed WWI happened. It was well documented and engraved in human history. Turns out the NT returns a negative because no historians had anything to say for or even against Jesus. History tells me he never walked the streets and healed.

[Norfolk And Chance]

God did not sacrifice to himself, only man can sacrifice something to God. God sacrificed his Messiah for man to save man from the sin man so loves. There is a big difference in your little picture compared to the big picture that only God can see.

Why did god need to kill to be satisfied? Not just jesus but all of the sacrifices made my tribes over the years, sacrificing animals, little girls, that sort of stuff? Don't forget he asked for these life terminating sacrifices according to the people that carried them out...

What a nasty piece of work your god is

[Godscreated]

I seek the truth within them so that I can better understand why Christ found us worth dying for. I seek the truth of God's love, I do not use the Bible for a history book because it was never intended for that purpose, the scriptures are about God's redemption of humanity and the love He has for His Messiah. It is my opinion that it doesn't take courage to seek out scriptural truth, a humble heart opens up much.

Christianity is a purely historical religion you realise. The reason why I would dismiss Mohammad as a liar is because he had isolated 'encounters with god'. That's of no use if you want to prove something. The NT on the other hand is written by so called witnesses (except paul). You even have Jesus performing miracles in public where people could later on testify about what they saw.

I used to believe in the NT like I believed WWI happened. It was well documented and engraved in human history. Turns out the NT returns a negative because no historians had anything to say for or even against Jesus. History tells me he never walked the streets and healed.

Christianity is not a historical religion, man has tried to make history of christianity, to either try and dismiss it as you have or to blame it for undesirable consequences that have occurred in the name of christianity.

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How is everyone sacrificed, Christ gave His life willingly even for those who refuse to believe, would you, I want to see you pull of the second part. RAISE FROM THE DEAD.

If I wanted to it'd be very easy to give up my life willingly.
And how is being raised from the dead a part of sacrifice. In a sacrifice, you give up something. You don't get it back and continue to call it a sacrifice.

Christ sacrificed his purity by taking on the sins of all of mankind. That lost purity, as it was before his death can never be recovered. I know you probably do not understand this or care to, but this is the sacrifice He made.

[Ace Otana]

Christ sacrificed his purity by taking on the sins of all of mankind. That lost purity, as it was before his death can never be recovered.

So he's not all powerful then? Also he can't be all knowing if this was the only solution he could think of. It's needlessly complex. Nature always takes the shortest/easiest route, perhaps god could of done the same?
Also what is purity and does it really matter? Why should it matter?

[Phil]

So if the story of Adam and Eve did not jive with 1000's of years of tradition they would have ousted Him immediately.

Again we have another ambiguous case. Why do you think his teachings lined up so nicely? Either he was the messiah or the authors of the NT made him look like the messiah. And again, given that Jesus can't be found in history, I wonder which of the two it is...

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For every Biblical explanation there's always an equal and opposite explanation (based on secular info). One of us is surrounded by smoke and mirrors.

Again you miss the larger point. Genesis is a book Written by a Jewish prophet FOR JEWS, and not Christians. Their account of the first sin being committed in the garden still exists, Apart from Christianity. My point was if this was a blaspheme, and it was indeed perpetrated by the NT writers apart from Moses (who originally wrote down the Genesis account) then why oh why have the Jews independently adopted this blaspheme when not adopting it, could dispel the whole Christian religion?

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Side note do you know what gnashing of teeth is? I didn't know till i experienced one day. It is the lock jaw response when one is in exceeding torment panic and pain. all the while the individual is screaming through those tightly clenched teeth.

Do you realize how idiotic your statement is? Gnashing of teeth is from the Greek Brygmos which is where the medical term Bruxism comes from. Stop talking because each time you make yourself sound more retarded.

(from the Greek βρυγμός (brygmós), "gnashing of teeth") is characterized by the grinding of the teeth and typically includes the clenching of the jaw.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism

Now take this definition and place it in the context in which the NT describes Hell. Now please explain to the "idiot" how his definition strays from your well informed post.

You tell him, that was one of my last posts before going to the hospital and having surgery

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Just like Mohammed believes he chilled out in heaven.

Mohammed was a lier. He used the old testament to make his own version of the holy book and his religion of Islam. Islam is a false religion based on a false God.

Recognize this sentence?

Paul was a lier. He used the old testament to make his own version called the New Testament and his religion of Christianity. Christianity is a false religion based on a false God.

How dumb can you be, Paul never tried to write the NT, he wrote letters that were later used as part of the NT.

Are you retarded? Are you telling me that none of the New Testament's had any influence from Paul's epistles besides the 7 attributed to Paul? And in case you are to stupid to figure it out, all 7 of Paul's epistles predate the gospels and the rest of the cannon by many decades.

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Mohammad forgot the teachings of the Torah, no man can look upon God and live, God even told Moses this,

And this is exactly why I find christoholics like you to be incorrigible assholes who lie only to ease the huge amount of cognitive dissonance they feel. Apparently, the verse Exodus 33:23 was removed from the Christian bible which says Moses saw god.

And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

But on a related note, since god has hindquarters, is he a horse?

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Mohammad forgot the teachings of the Torah, no man can look upon God and live, God even told Moses this,

And this is exactly why I find christoholics like you to be incorrigible assholes who lie only to ease the huge amount of cognitive dissonance they feel. Apparently, the verse Exodus 33:23 was removed from the Christian bible which says Moses saw god.

And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

But on a related note, since god has hindquarters, is he a horse?

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Christianity is not a historical religion, man has tried to make history of christianity, to either try and dismiss it as you have or to blame it for undesirable consequences that have occurred in the name of christianity.

Funny you can actually say this but you are still to much in asshole mode to take the next step and admit there is no basis for it just as there is no history of it (but much mythology).