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Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
#21
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
Your wife believes in god - did you assume she was an asshole straight off the bat?

Give me a break. Having a shitty belief doesn't inherently make you an asshole, it just means that up until the asshole point, you are at worst a ridiculously uncritical thinker and at best have a gris-gris you probably should work at.
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#22
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
I did, actually, it was an early deal breaker to be honest, but we made it past all that. It doesn't grind my gears when people "think uncritically", we all do that. It's the whole blood atonement and scapegoating routine that to me, is pure unadultered evil. It's an irreconcilable difference (for me). As far as my wife goes, I've never been the type that could choose those that I love, and I've loved (and continue to love) people that would probably curdle your blood. She doesn't rank up there with the worst of the worst, but I wouldn't blow smoke up anyone's ass and call her a saint either.

(keep in mind that I have physically been present when people have been scapegoated for less and far more brutally than anything offered in the christ narrative, it makes me feel like a piece of shit just for having been associated with people who would do this, or even attribute it to some mechanism of the fucking cosmos, "piece of shit" as in "no will to live". If that's the best we have to offer, if that's "virtue", well, count me the fuck out. It may seem like a silly fable to some, a terrible mis-step in critical thinking, but I've seen this belief (this urge, this desire, this willingness) expressed in action. It is not harmless, it is not provincial, it is not just an old fable. It's very much alive and well.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#23
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
(March 31, 2012 at 11:01 am)cdabamsworth Wrote: I used to be a Christian.

Every time people attacked me / insulted me about my beliefs, or said things in a harsh way, I ignored them and laughed at them, knowing that they were wrong. I went around calling Richard Dawkins a 'loudmouth' without actually having ever watched his shows.

That's why I was surprised when I did watch one of his shows and found it to be very gentle and permissive and persuasive.

I was a massive fan of Derren Brown and that's when I found out he was atheist. He too was very gentle and open-minded in his views, so it really struck me as odd that these so-called atheists weren't so bad.

I began to realize that the demonic aspects of atheists just...weren't there. Some of them were way too outspoken, but the nice ones did have a point.

The main reason I deconverted was because I realized it was very foolish of me to laugh at ghost-believers, psychic-believers, astrology-believers, Muslims and so on, but still believe in Christianity with the same amount of evidence.

This deconversion would not have taken place without the friendly, gentle tone that accompanied the people who made atheism clearer to me.

This is just a heads up to anyone who thinks shouting at believers works.

[Image: illtellyouwhatyoudidwit.jpg]

IOW, if they can't deal with having their beliefs belittled, they should be happy atheists aren't as bloodthirsty as the Christians were.
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#24
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
The truth to both sides is that the extremist and loudest shouters are the ones that get recognized and remembered and the moderates who really couldn't give a fuck aren't even considered.

I didn't say your wife's beliefs were anything to be proud of, nor were the harmful manifestations of any religion from any believer anything to excuse. It doesn't make them an automatic asshole either. Mostly because some people have been brought up to believe a certain way without even questioning it.

There's a guy I know who's pretty deep into his church and what it does and supports creationism and all that other crap. He's not an asshole. In fact, he's one of the kindest people I know. Despite the rather asshole ways of many people in both of my temples, I never assumed that all Germans were assholes either, even if they let Nazi stuff slide. I don't even think many people who ID as Republicans are assholes.

Does being Christian necessarily make any sort of blood atonement more evil than when the pagans practiced it?
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#25
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
Pagans weren't assholes as well when they went about ripping up each others entrails to fortell the future? News to me. People seem so hooked on "manifestations", well, this isn't a court of law. I don't have to wait for someone to act out their bloody little tendencies to say "asshole", it's just my opinion. Where would these "manifestations" spring from if people weren't so callous that they didn't stop and think to themselves "wait a minute wtf?" I understand and appreciate some peoples situation, born and raised to believe (my wife for example), but exactly what does that excuse them from when it comes to my main point of contention? Precisely nothing. Peoples beliefs don't get them kid gloves from me. In the long list of things that people can be or do to deserve the "asshole" title this is just one that makes my personal list. Nothing more, nothing less. Is an unfaithful spouse as asshole? Depends on who you ask, a tax evader? Again, depends. Well, for me, christian = asshole. No worries, we all have a little asshole in us here and there, and I wouldn't say that an asshole is all that any christian is (in totality), but it's definitely present.

"Well, as a christian I don't see the christ narrative the way you do"
-"that's because you're an asshole"-

Look, Summer, find me a christian that says "No thank you, I'll handle my own shortcomings myself, I made those choices and it's up to me to shoulder the consequences. Take christ down off that cross and send me to hell if I deserve it, I won't be party to your little blood magic bullshit" -then I'll reverse myself. Hell, I might ask him how one goes about becoming a member of his goddamned church. Those who -require/demand/accept/profess the sanctity of- the sacrifice of others to feel redeemed or worthwhile themselves aren't going to get any pleasantries from me, period.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#26
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
(March 31, 2012 at 1:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Q-"Do you believe in christ and atonement."
A-"Yes."

Asshole, no assumptions required.

Dick, with all due respect.
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#27
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
If someone says something batshit, I won't hesitate to call that person a nutbag, or something similar. Even if that person is a personal friend. If someone says something stupid, I won't hesitate to call that person a dumb shit. Even if that person is a personal friend. Etc. I think you get my point.

I'm certainly not going to refrain from doing so if that person is some random stranger on the internet. If that person takes offense, I won't hesitate to make fun of that person for doing so. The same goes for someone being an ass.

In none of those cases will anyone convince me I should have acted otherwise. But to simply attack someone because they hold a different view is uncalled for. Let them earn the venom first... then let them have it.
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#28
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
LOL, it's aight Whateverist, I'm a dick in alot of ways (and worse than that). Doesn't bother me all that much. When people's religious views are hateful they deserve the hate, no kid gloves. They're free to believe it, and I'm free to call them an asshole for it. Two way street.

The difference in my being a dick and their being an asshole is simple. I'm a dick because I'm a big meanie that doesn't feel that "belief" = "free reign to spout viscious bullshit without people calling you an asshole", they an asshole because they argue for blood magic, scapegoating, and human sacrifice as virtue. GG.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#29
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
I'm not being funny but if someone comes on here telling me I deserve to be punished and burn for eternity, I feel I have the right to call them a cunt.

Generally the basis for most beliefs is that we are all sinners. I find that deeply offensive. Excuse me if I happen to call them some nasty names Smile
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#30
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
And you and I will never agree on how to treat people, mostly because I know most people on the planet will say "yes I believe something" without stopping to actually think about it. It makes them stupid and sheepish, but it doesn't make them assholes inherently. Most of them wouldn't have the stomach to actually go through with it and you know it.

I never said not to rip on people's retarded beliefs.

Have fun with it, boys. I'm dressing to go to a burlesque show.
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