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Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
#41
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
It isn't simply that they believe, it's what, specifically, they believe in amigo. I'm pretty sure I made that very clear, so I'm not sure exactly how your assessment applies to me and my personal value judgements. My position is my own (I also made that very clear), it is explicit, it is specific and it is applicable to the vast majority of self professing christians, whether or not I know anything else about them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#42
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
(March 31, 2012 at 10:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(March 31, 2012 at 10:05 pm)whateverist Wrote: [quote='Rhythm' pid='264265' dateline='1333222999']
But the mere fact that someone believes in a god or atonement surely cannot make them an asshole.

Oh, sure it can.


[Image: WBC_20051202_sacco-topeka5.jpg]

Basically what he just showed you.

The argument that "belief cannot make someone bad" is a long, LONG disproven argument.
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#43
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
(March 31, 2012 at 10:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(March 31, 2012 at 10:05 pm)whateverist Wrote: [quote='Rhythm' pid='264265' dateline='1333222999']
But the mere fact that someone believes in a god or atonement surely cannot make them an asshole.

Oh, sure it can.


[Image: WBC_20051202_sacco-topeka5.jpg]

Hmmm .. so you're saying that because some people who believe in God do hateful things, all people who believe in God should be premptively hated on sight. I can't follow that logic.

While I'll never agree that atheism is a religion it is obviously true that atheists can be true believers in the same way that makes most Christians unbearable.
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#44
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
What posts have you been reading? You seem to see a lot of text that I don't..... I think that it would probably take a bit more energy than I'm willing to give to go around hating everyone I thought was an asshole (Min may feel differently). Undecided
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#45
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
(March 31, 2012 at 10:53 pm)Rhythm Wrote: It isn't simply that they believe, it's what, specifically, they believe in amigo. I'm pretty sure I made that very clear, so I'm not sure exactly how your assessment applies to me and my personal value judgements. My position is my own (I also made that very clear), it is explicit, it is specific and it is applicable to the vast majority of self professing christians, whether or not I know anything else about them.

Mea culpa. I didn't read all the posts leading up to the short one. My last two posts on this thread were based on your short post to the effect that belief in god and atonement = assholeness.

Having read the longer one before I see the point you're making. People who need to believe a blood sacrifice absolves them of their responsibility or ennobles them in any way are at least not very admirable in that respect. "Assholes"? Wouldn't be my choice but I get now what you probably mean by that.
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#46
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
Quote:all people who believe in God should be premptively hated on sight.


Hated? You are reading a lot into it.

But people who really believe in an invisible sky-daddy ARE assholes.

And if history has taught us anything it is that they have to be watched.
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#47
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
Quote:And if history has taught us anything it is that they have to be watched.

Indeed.Along with anyone advising premptive hatred.I was about invoke Godwin's law,but am giving that up for lent. Angel Cloud
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#48
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
My hatred towards the religious tends to fall within a certain boundary.

On the one hand, I realize that succumbing to religion is a form of weakness.

On the other, I realize that some people are made weaker by circumstance, and that religion preys mostly upon individuals suffering crises in their life, rather than those who were merely weak-willed to begin with.

My hatred is towards those who were weak from the start, who were docile, and succumb despite all the evidence against their beliefs. People who are gullible, surrendered their reason in exchange for 'faith,' claim this as a GOOD thing, and then try to force that view upon others.

My hatred stops before it reaches people who were on the ropes about the entire thing [or were outright atheists] before suffering a particularly harsh trauma upon their lives. A lover being violently taken, a child being stolen and murdered by a pedorast. An amputation of the limb or paralysis for life, an infection by a disease that ultimately results in a greatly shortened lifespan and a debilitated life before an ungracious end. The loss of a brother, a sister, mother or father, son or daughter, well before their time. religion preys on people at their weakest. There are people of strong wills, laid low by extreme tragedy, who are emotionally devoured by the predaciously religious; people who take advantage of othres who are in a state of supreme grief. My hatred and contempt is not wasted on these poor individuals; it's reserved especially for those who prey upon them. My bile and fury and contempt is meant for those who are naturally individuals of weak character, reason, and morality and who reconcile this not by finding their own strength but by forcing their weak wills upon those in need of comfort and support, those who are desperate for some shelter from the despair that has been wrought on them.

Such people, such predators, are not worthy of my soft-spoken words. I will speak softly to those who are led into the fold by the predators. But I will bring out the anti-materiel rifle-equivalent of my moral fury against the predators themselves. If you think such individuals could be reasoned with, could have soft-spoken individuals convince them through sheer, cool logic of the wrongness of their ways, you are supremely naive of the way the world and the human mind works, I am regretful to say.
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#49
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
(March 31, 2012 at 11:40 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:all people who believe in God should be premptively hated on sight.


Hated? You are reading a lot into it.

But people who really believe in an invisible sky-daddy ARE assholes.

And if history has taught us anything it is that they have to be watched.

Reminds me of the one time I went to church with my father as an adult. I sat there politely to start but then they started railing about how important if was to donate for missionary work. I had to ask them why it was so important to them to see the whole world wearing a suit and carrying a bible on Sundays. I told them I didn't see a world of conformity as any improvement. The preacher guy turned to someone in the audience and asked what one should do when they had a snake in their midst. "Watch it!" he said.

I don't really want to watch Christians all that much but I agree we need to keep their fundamentalist influence out of public schools and the government as much as possible. I don't want a war with them either because coerced thought doesn't count for much. For their sake, I'd like to see more of them weed out the superstition from their religious beliefs. If they opt for atheism, cool. If they opt for embracing Christianity in a more enlightened way (i.e., acknowledge the bible is literature with wisdom stories, not a reference book; and there is no objective reason to support their beliefs, just faith), that's cool with me too.
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#50
RE: Insulting & attacking belief doesn't work.
"Weed[ing] out the superstition from their religious beliefs" would leave them with nothing but bare ground and no crop.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



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