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Evolution
#11
RE: Evolution
I consider AtheistEmpire to be credible, but we can't expect a theist to consider it credible. The other sites you listed he should have no problem with, however.
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#12
RE: Evolution
Kratos Wrote:I suppose, but if you can see that which is impossible to see then the deity may or may not be the middle man that can give you this ability.
Who knows?

Given our limited understanding, how to we determine what exactly is impossible? Remember that 3000 years ago no one could understand how lightning worked therefore people attrubuted it to a deity. Nowadays no apologist would dare use lightning as a justification for a god, so who is to say that what we see as impossible is not only entirely possible but will be common knowledge in the future?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#13
RE: Evolution
(April 8, 2012 at 8:19 pm)R-e-n-n-a-t Wrote: I consider AtheistEmpire to be credible, but we can't expect a theist to consider it credible. The other sites you listed he should have no problem with, however.

I have an endless list if he want's to play that game. Wink
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#14
RE: Evolution
Feminism is oppressive now? To who? At any rate, no, a god can't evolve unless it reproduces. (And exists.)

Now, as for your statistic about there being less crime when the U.S was devoutly Christian- you need real studies to support this. I've seen none to date. By and large, it seems to be a simple case of nostalgia- the past is rarely as good as people remember. In fact, American crime rates in the last forty years are down. European (mostly secular) countries have far less crime than us, even with the crime decline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html


(April 8, 2012 at 6:58 pm)Kratos Wrote: Hi I was wondering if athiests believe in evolution. And Earth is a fairly new world cosmically speaking could it be possible that God/s evolved before Earth? Let me simplify, a god is a being with the power of creation, a master of maipulation of energy and matter. Could it be possible that in the eons of the Chaos the Gods evolved?

I just noticed, you said "gods". What gods do you believe in? Or did you mean to use the singular form of god?
What falls away is always, and is near.

Also, I am not pretending to be female, this profile picture is my wonderful girlfriend. XD
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#15
RE: Evolution
(April 8, 2012 at 8:09 pm)R-e-n-n-a-t Wrote: How would Feminism or Humanism oppress people? That's just stupid. The primary goal of both is to allow equal, greater rights. I haven't studied Marxism so I can't comment on that.

Aside from that, in order to evolve, deities would need to be able to reproduce biologically. That alone would remove them from the realm of the supernatural.

Collective beliefs cause oppression and self oppression, if you live by primordial instinct you are truly free as an individual. This is getting away from gods but I see that the secularists tend to bind themselves up in so many laws and so called "rights".
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#16
RE: Evolution
(April 8, 2012 at 8:26 pm)Kratos Wrote:
(April 8, 2012 at 8:09 pm)R-e-n-n-a-t Wrote: How would Feminism or Humanism oppress people? That's just stupid. The primary goal of both is to allow equal, greater rights. I haven't studied Marxism so I can't comment on that.

Aside from that, in order to evolve, deities would need to be able to reproduce biologically. That alone would remove them from the realm of the supernatural.

Collective beliefs cause oppression and self oppression, if you live by primordial instinct you are truly free as an individual. This is getting away from gods but I see that the secularists tend to bind themselves up in so many laws and so called "rights".

As a creature acting upon primordial instinct, you are free to abandon the internet, medicine, and any belief in gods. Those are constructs of higher thought, a trait which most humans have, and a trait that allows us to thrive.

Some lines of thought add rights, such as humanism, run contrary to the primordial theme of "me, me, me", while others, such as religion, are a method of control devised by rulers of the past.

Besides, it's a construct of our society that females would be treated as inferiors. Some tribes in Africa have blanket equality for the genders, proof that primordial instincts do not always result in a bigoted division of genders, and therefore evidence that feminism is not the oppression of primordial instincts: it may well be their expression.
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#17
RE: Evolution
(April 8, 2012 at 8:26 pm)Kratos Wrote:
(April 8, 2012 at 8:09 pm)R-e-n-n-a-t Wrote: How would Feminism or Humanism oppress people? That's just stupid. The primary goal of both is to allow equal, greater rights. I haven't studied Marxism so I can't comment on that.

Aside from that, in order to evolve, deities would need to be able to reproduce biologically. That alone would remove them from the realm of the supernatural.

Collective beliefs cause oppression and self oppression, if you live by primordial instinct you are truly free as an individual. This is getting away from gods but I see that the secularists tend to bind themselves up in so many laws and so called "rights".

Society by nature is restrictive, because true freedom would quickly create miserable anarchy for everyone. However, feminism and humanism create more freedom than is otherwise found in conservative societies. No society is truly "free", but secular societies are the free-est yet created.

Edit- And, of course, we need society. Without it, we're near powerless as a species, and would live in constant pain and misery, struggling only to survive on a daily basis.
What falls away is always, and is near.

Also, I am not pretending to be female, this profile picture is my wonderful girlfriend. XD
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#18
RE: Evolution
(April 8, 2012 at 8:26 pm)Kratos Wrote: Collective beliefs cause oppression and self oppression, if you live by primordial instinct you are truly free as an individual.

You are applying the structure of religion on those ideas. Religion is oppressive. Feminism is an idea a concept it is not enforced, same with humanism.

We need rules to a certain level as its in the best interest of all humans.
Quote:This is getting away from gods but I see that the secularists tend to bind themselves up in so many laws and so called "rights".

What are you talking about? We are only forced to adhere to the laws of our nations. You don't grab another rule book because you don't believe in god. In fact its the other way around.
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#19
RE: Evolution
(April 8, 2012 at 8:22 pm)Aegrus Wrote: Feminism is oppressive now? To who? At any rate, no, a god can't evolve unless it reproduces. (And exists.)

Now, as for your statistic about there being less crime when the U.S was devoutly Christian- you need real studies to support this. I've seen none to date. By and large, it seems to be a simple case of nostalgia- the past is rarely as good as people remember. In fact, American crime rates in the last forty years are down. European (mostly secular) countries have far less crime than us, even with the crime decline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html


(April 8, 2012 at 6:58 pm)Kratos Wrote: Hi I was wondering if athiests believe in evolution. And Earth is a fairly new world cosmically speaking could it be possible that God/s evolved before Earth? Let me simplify, a god is a being with the power of creation, a master of maipulation of energy and matter. Could it be possible that in the eons of the Chaos the Gods evolved?

I just noticed, you said "gods". What gods do you believe in? Or did you mean to use the singular form of god?

Well I suppose I don't know, no one really knows what a God is.
Muhammad said that man was in Gods image related to reason, so God has reason but he said that God was beyond understanding.
So I believe in things beyond my understanding I suppose. At the end of the day you cannot prove or disprove God or Gods as you don't even know what you are talking about.
I suppose the athiest religion is the "System".
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#20
RE: Evolution
(April 8, 2012 at 8:37 pm)Kratos Wrote: Well I suppose I don't know, no one really knows what a God is.
Muhammad said that man was in Gods image related to reason, so God has reason but he said that God was beyond understanding.
So I believe in things beyond my understanding I suppose. At the end of the day you cannot prove or disprove God or Gods as you don't even know what you are talking about.
I suppose the athiest religion is the "System".

This is ignorant on various levels. Atheists are not all one way- even if you classify feminism (edit- or humanism, or the "system") as a religion (ridiculous a notion as that would be), not all atheists are feminists,or humanists. Not all of them even believe in evolution. Some are anarchists. It would be impossible to classify atheism as a single religion, even if you could prove that a certain atheist were in fact worshipping a "system."
What falls away is always, and is near.

Also, I am not pretending to be female, this profile picture is my wonderful girlfriend. XD
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